Beat Matching V's Sync...

[andyman]

Some food for thought:

"Steve Angello delivers the final word on "fake dj" accusations"

As you’ll recall back in 2011, Swedish House Mafia heavy-hitter Steve Angello went on the defense after a video appeared on YouTube titled, ‘Steve Angello – How To Fake Your Fans’. The video showed Angello on-stage at Dance Valley in The Netherlands DJing without headphones. In response to accusations of playing a pre-recorded mix, he explained that the close of his show is a “medley mix” synched to fireworks. Since then, though, the ‘fake DJ’ tag has lingered, even inciting house original DJ Sneak to go on the offensive. This afternoon at the EDMBiz conference in Las Vegas, Angello fielded a question from a fan about the blow-up, and inthemix was there to hear it.

“The thing is, I lost my hearing in my left ear two years ago,” Angello said. “I couldn’t hear for almost a month and thought I was going deaf. I’m always in airplanes working with my headphones on really loud. So I taught myself how to DJ without headphones. With today’s technology on Pioneer decks, you can see what the BPM of the next record is. If you know your records, you know how long it is to the first drop and where the outro is. It’s not a hard thing to do, but people always question things if they don’t know how it’s done.

“This kid filmed me at Dance Valley and said on YouTube, Steve Angello’s faking whole DJ sets without headphones. And then that catches on. What I did afterwards was go to D.C. is put two cameras either side of me and one above, and did a five-hour DJ set without headphones. You can see how I do all the mixes, all the BPMs.

“Listen, I wouldn’t be doing this if I was faking,” he said in conclusion, “’cause I could’ve done shitloads of other stuff. I’ve done this since I was twelve, I know how to beatmatch.”

[Cupe]

exactly, and he's not fucking wrong.

i find beatmatching simple. I dj'd without headphones on vinyl, and that was before I had traktor, and i've only dj'd for a handful of years

someone as epic as the top dj's these days should be able to cinch it with ease

too many cunts have been brought up on digital gear and it's half wrecking your skills imo

but it's irrelevant anyway given the direction the music industry is heading, imagine cunts who are like 10 years old now just starting. by the time they're old enough to dj in clubs they won't even know what a vinyl turntable is (or what CD's are for that matter)

[russell]

i find beatmatching simple. I dj'd without headphones on vinyl,)

How exactly did you manage this?

by the time they're old enough to dj in clubs they won't even know what a vinyl turntable is (or what CD's are for that matter)

Vinyl will still be around...

[Cupe]

yea vinyl will never die brah, i never meant it would

i find beatmatching simple. I dj'd without headphones on vinyl,)

How exactly did you manage this?

i duno, you just learn the records. i suppose for a vinyl DJ our 'waveform' are the lines on the vinyl. I can look at my fav records and know where tracks start, finish, where the intro's go to, where the drops start etc.

When I bought turntables no one taught me, i just muddled along learning myself. and shit like that just came with it.

my headphones were shit, and i got sick of using them, so i stopped.

You just know the tracks - even now i DJ when I use traktor just by analysing the waveforms and guessing how far it's going to be before something drops in time with something else.

I think the way I've learnt makes stuff that seems difficult for others easy for me because it's all I know

But put me in front of CDJ's and mixer with effects etc and I won't know shit about it

[russell]

i find beatmatching simple. I dj'd without headphones on vinyl,)

How exactly did you manage this?

[Cupe]

if you like i could do a live performance on the radio sometime without headphones and we can both try to work out how it happens?

cause i rly don't know

[russell]

if you like i could do a live performance on the radio sometime without headphones and we can both try to work out how it happens?

cause i rly don't know

would require video link + vodka

[Cupe]

i can probs setup a cam if i can dig it out of storage somewhere. think i know where one is maybe in the attic

and i always have vodka on hand

put it on the backburner for when we're both feeling energetic

[legunner]

Don't understand why this topic is still going

[GREMM1S]

It is no coincidence the majority of sync djs cant read a crowd well nor pick harmonically matching songs or pick appropriate sections of songs to mix in and out of etc the list goes on.

Its not just the manual beatmatching that is the issue its the mentality and all the associated aspects of djing well.

9/10 controller djs dont do it well lool at the bigger picture guys.

[chrismak]

Lazy dj's are attracted to auto sync. That doesn't imply all auto sync users are lazy.

[lloydc]

now that I think of it, i've never achally seen a "sync DJ" playing in a club in sydney.... just sayin

[Gandy]

ok, heres my two cents...

its my personal opinion that every dj should learn how to beatmatch, but not just for the sake of being able to mix two songs together. For me, learning to beat match was so much more. This was before controllers, software, mixed in key, platinum notes, insert new fangled software that does everything for you. I used to love getting home from work, opening my cd wallet, crankin up the speakers and practising my beat matching. I'd try a few different songs, get frustrated, try another couple of songs, get frustrated, go back to the first song and try the third song, go hmm this combo, while not being beat matched, sounded pretty good together i might stick with these two for awhile. Rinse and repeat basically every day of the week. Every now and then id get ear fatigue and have a break for a couple of days, by the end of the second days break i was that keen and eager to get back into it id go twice as long the next practise sessions.

Then one afternoon that i still vividly remember as being one of the best days of my life, something awesome happened. Same deal, got home from work, open up cd wallet, crank speakers, turn on mixer, fire up cds, put my two cds in... play first song, cue second song... bam, beatmatched, i was like HOLY FUCK DID YOU JUST HEAR THAT (to my empty room, empty house). Grabbed the next cd, same thing, beatmatched, sounding awesome. What felt like such a struggle, such an effort, such concentration to try and do, all of a sudden was as natural as riding a bike, driving a car etc. The sense of accomplishment and euphoria that ensured was nothing short of magical, id done it, i got it, i could beatmatch...

Now the whole point of that little story is to try and show that when you learn beatmatching, alot of other things happen as well. While i was learning this, i was also learning my music library inside out, names, artists, sections of each track, what remixes worked and what didnt, phyiscal location of where the cd was in my wallet (although not as important these days). I was also learning which tracks sounded harmonious together (Mixed in Key), because even though i was beatmatching now some tracks just didnt go together so i knew not to mix those, and this was all done by ear. I also knew i had a few "soft" or "loud" tracks that no matter how much i fucked with my eqs, it still sounded out (Platinum Notes) so i would have to get another copy of it, or try and fix/normalise it myself. Again, i was learning all of this while simply trying to beatmatch.

so for me, thats the pros of learning how to beatmatch, amazing sense of accomplishment, learning your music library inside out, and learning to "feel" the music while you play, which for me, is why i do it. I love feeding off the music im playing, which in turn gives me an energy that i can then feed to my crowd as well as the music, nothing better for me then not only listening to good tunes but seeing the dj is genuinely enjoying himself behind the decks.

Software/Sync im not a big fan of, never have been, never will be. Thats not to say it doesnt have its place. I have seen/heard some amazing sets that, lets be honest if it wasnt quantized/automized/whatever other software assistance, you could not pull it off. Its also made me extremely lazy now, thanks to Coloured Wave Forms/MIK/PN, i can pull off a seamless mix just using basic music theory knowledge/visual aids, and not being able to use a controller without the software, im actually considering selling it and picking up some cdjs again. There's just something about playing off cds/usbs that does it for me. Hell if i had my own vinyl press id get tts

You also have to realise that djing has been the "in" thing for awhile now, and i think it has already peaked and is on the way out. I remember growing up in highschool, being in a band, or being into x-games was the thing to be, thanks mainly to some popular/influential personalities like Metallica or Tony Hawk. Same thing can be said about the dance music scene. Give it another 5-7 years and being a dj wont be as glorified as it is now imo.

at end of the day, ifs its good music, its good music, enjoy it

[JonnyB]

My 2 cents.

The whole reason this argument started is what everone class's a 'dj' as. everyone has different opinion on what it means. some people take it in the literal sense as 'disc jokey' i.e. someone needs to have 2 decks infront of them and manualy beat matching, and if they dont have the 2 or more 'disc's' they arn't a dj, which is where jaz stands i think.

The second is someone who is somoene who is using a peice of equiptment to play EDM to a crowd.

tbh i dont give a shit, all him a dj or entertainer or whatever, in my opinion someone's credibilty should be judged on the skill it takes him to do what he does.

@jaz just because someone is sinking dosent mean he is just sitting there clapping doing fuck all. as andyman stated or someone else, the guy mentioned before is syncing up 4 tracks at once, sure he isnt doing the beat matching, but id like to see you do what he does as good as him, he is basically doing live production, which in my eyes, takes a shit load more skill then simply mixing 1 track into another.

So inconclusion........ Bacon.

[LabRat]

I don't think this discussion will ever end these days but I now will choose sync over beatmatch. Reason - if your tempo is synced you have more freedom to be creative with your mixing; incorporating samples and quick cuts and blends etc. Use the technology that's available to you to create something different

[eggssell]

So inconclusion........ Bacon.

i like bacon. bacon good.

i thunk we have a winner =D>

[GREMM1S]

My 2 cents.

The whole reason this argument started is what everone class's a 'dj' as. everyone has different opinion on what it means. some people take it in the literal sense as 'disc jokey' i.e. someone needs to have 2 decks infront of them and manualy beat matching, and if they dont have the 2 or more 'disc's' they arn't a dj, which is where jaz stands i think.

The second is someone who is somoene who is using a peice of equiptment to play EDM to a crowd.

tbh i dont give a shit, all him a dj or entertainer or whatever, in my opinion someone's credibilty should be judged on the skill it takes him to do what he does.

@jaz just because someone is sinking dosent mean he is just sitting there clapping doing fuck all. as andyman stated or someone else, the guy mentioned before is syncing up 4 tracks at once, sure he isnt doing the beat matching, but id like to see you do what he does as good as him, he is basically doing live production, which in my eyes, takes a shit load more skill then simply mixing 1 track into another.

So inconclusion........ Bacon.

100% but it's the fact most people using the technology aren't doing this, they are merely doing basic mixing which pisses me off.

End of the day each to their own but manually mixing is mixing by the ear and will always sound better /endthread haha

[GREMM1S]

I don't think this discussion will ever end these days but I now will choose sync over beatmatch. Reason - if your tempo is synced you have more freedom to be creative with your mixing; incorporating samples and quick cuts and blends etc. Use the technology that's available to you to create something different

I will admit that is one really cool thing how many different ways and things there are to djing now.

You have mpc's and launchpads with ableton, vinyl with timecode, the new cdjs etc the list goes on.

[mattus123]

Pretty sure this entire thread has been derailed and turned into another 'by ear vs sync' argument that will never be resolved

source asked for an analogy to try and better explain sync, not to re open this over discussed topic.

There are clearly pros and cons to both

[russell]

There are clearly pros and cons to both

What are the cons to beatmatching?

[mattus123]

off the top of my head.... takes a little bit more time,

doesnt allow you as much creative freedom as you have when you sync as you have to worry about beat-matching the tracks

moving the platter to beatmatch increases the chance of arthritis in ur fingers...probably?

i havent slept yet, so im tired and cant construct proper sentences.

for the record though, i havent used sync, never had equipment that has it. i can see the advantages of using it thou

[russell]

moving the platter to beatmatch increases the chance of arthritis in ur fingers...probably?

that made me

[GREMM1S]

moving the platter to beatmatch increases the chance of arthritis in ur fingers...probably?

that made me

Hahaha and pressing the sync button also leads to jarring your finger and shrinks your penis.

[LabRat]

There are clearly pros and cons to both

What are the cons to beatmatching?

What are the cons of beat sync?

[GREMM1S]

If the program misreads the bpm or beatgrid majority of sync djs are stuffed

You have to take the controller with you which is silly and a pain in the arse if a club already has in house gear

Many have poor soundcards compared to traditional mixers, this is noticeable on large systems

You rely on a computer, need a power source and more stress/time to set up.

Alot of people (clubbers, promoters, other djs etc) can be annoyed as they are paying for a professional dj not a fancy jukebox

But im not all about hating them, they most certainly are useful and have their place in mobile djing and beginners.

Both have their pro's and cons but the primary con of beatmatching is commitment and practice.