CDJs for a Beginner??

[Lumi]

So im not sure if i'll be posting this in the right place so sorry, was tossing this up between beginner and the gear section so yeah

ANYWAY

The issue that i'm having is i'm not sure which CDJs to invest in. I have bought myself a brand new/2nd had DJM 350, barely used still has 2 and a half years on warranty. Now my only experiences with mixing have been with 1000 mk3s, which are sweet from what i remember :/ love their size and everything but they are expensive and don't have the USB compatibility which i was really after, although as a beginner would it be better to get a CDJ with USB functionality, which will FORCE me to burn CDs so i learn my songs better and what not?

Back to the gear issue, i was thinking about 350's for their USB compatibility, there also fairly cheap, however the platter is soo small and i like the look of the lights in the middle of the 1000's platter. With this in mind, would it be best to invest in 1000s or 900s or go for 850s which have the best of both worlds for the cheapest, have the big platter and the USB function and most of the other functions that the 900s 1000s have, although i do prefer the black finish to the silver but thats just cosmetic and being kinda anal. SO yeh if you guys would be able to help me out here, looking to get a nice bit of dough over christmas from presents as my birthday is 2 days after on the 27th, so i can afford something. My budget would be around the $1k mark as im not sure whether to get something decent now and then find out its not for me but then don't want to get 350s and find out in a few months that i want to upgrade hell badly. So any tips would be much appreciated guys.

P.s Preference is for Pioneer as you may have noticed as i've heard they have the best products, although there may be other CDJs that are cheaper i just have a thing for pioneers from the times that i've used them so far, or is this a stupid/idiotic mindset to have especially as a beginner?

Cheers guys

[andyman]

If it was me making the splash, I'd steer towards the 850's.

Jaz and mitch_fidd will be able to tell you more about them, but from my understanding they are a full sized CDJ, with USB compatibility and most of the bells and whistles (except quantitized looping).

I'm in a similar situation myself, and will definitely be trying to put the cash together for a pair of these in the new year.

[Gandy]

or go for 850s which have the best of both worlds for the cheapest, have the big platter and the USB function and most of the other functions that the 900s 1000s have

think you just answered your own question

850s are great, and as andyman said jaz and fudd will be able to get you some info on those as they own them. Only thing 850s lack are quantized looping and no network port (network port being required for rekordbox to use as a dvs)

[Lumi]

Well the toss up is between spending more for the 850s and having decent hardware for a long time but if i don't feel it then i've just taken a massive amount out of my bank account or do they hold their value fairly well? Or get 350s which are a fair bit cheaper but might have me wanting to upgrade soon.

Can you still use rekordbox on the 850s?? Just not for dvs?

[Gandy]

Well the toss up is between spending more for the 850s and having decent hardware for a long time but if i don't feel it then i've just taken a massive amount out of my bank account or do they hold their value fairly well? Or get 350s which are a fair bit cheaper but might have me wanting to upgrade soon.

Can you still use rekordbox on the 850s?? Just not for dvs?

i started with 350s and the first thing i said after a month was "wish i got 900s this platter size is too small". I personally think the cdj350s will be the last small platter cdjs, because now you have controllers coming out with similar size platters + 4 chan mixer all in one for cheaper, so they are going to lose their value real quick, imho.

850s will easily retain their value, loko at the 900s, they have been around for ages and are atill 1500 a pop brand new, ive been waiting for those suckers to drop in price for ages lol, and with 850s being new and only missing those two features i listed its pretty safe to say you will get good resell value if you decide its not for you.

850s are rekordbox compatable for playlist and music management via usb, but not as a dvs because you need network for that

[Jaz]

yeh 850's are great, if i was a begginer again i would have splashed out on 850's straight away rather then 400's

[SolDios]

And people want ridiculous amounts of cash for 1000's

You can link the 850's with traktor, which allows quantized loops, and if you don't like loops, re map them to hot cue's.

[Mitch]

@Sol's comment: I wouldn't rely on linking the CDJs to traktor. i tried it, mapping was a bit dodgy. They do have the ability for HID which would be better, but traktor hasn't updated their software to be capable of that feature (yet).

I went straight from a midi controller to CDJ 850s, best thing i ever did. Full size jog wheels are so good, being full size like the pro models. USB support is also very handy.

Off the top of my head, main features you gain over 350s:

-Full size platter

-Bigger screen - can see 3 tracks at once when browsing, as opposed to one on 350s

-(Very) Basic Waveform on screen

Main feautures missing from 850's that are in 900's and 2000's

-tilted screen

-full colour display (2000's only)

-Slip mode (900 only)

-Recordbox LAN Support - which if your planning on using USBs anyway, not too much of an issue

-Quantised looping

-Different sort options in categories (at least i haven't been able to do it, but you definately can on 900s/2000s)

When comparing to 1000s, I've used them at venue, and IMO the 850's are better - main feature you loose is hot cues, but you gain auto loops and recordbox USB support.

I'm extremely happy with mine.

As with everything though, at the end of the day, comes down to you get what you pay for.

If you have any other q's about 850s just hit me or Jaz up and will be able to help you out

PS. 850s are available new in black now too

[Lumi]

I just did a quick youtube search on the whole quantized loops and correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't it just let you not screw up your loop so you don't have to press out in time? Making it for lazy people who can't keep in time with their loops? Correct me if im wrong but isn't that feature kinda the cheats way to do things just like the BPM lock feature?

Well looking at 850s, would it be best to get them 2nd hand or brand new? And i've been looking around haven't been able to find anything really 2nd hand but brand new seen them for around the $950 mark, although going to see if JB hifi have them cause i've seen they have the cheapest prices on everything that i've seen to date in terms of gear, and cash can always get it lower.

They come in black now ... Seeing as i've seen them atleast $500 cheaper a pop then 900s which would save me over a grand to go to my mac book, think i'll settle for them, now just to find them and get money from christmas and paid. Thank god i just got handed a 2nd roster at work for an extra 60 hours over the next month on top of what i already have

[Gandy]

I just did a quick youtube search on the whole quantized loops and correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't it just let you not screw up your loop so you don't have to press out in time? Making it for lazy people who can't keep in time with their loops? Correct me if im wrong but isn't that feature kinda the cheats way to do things just like the BPM lock feature?

basically yeah, but what can ya do thats technology for ya, no point fighting it. A turntablist could also argue that cdjs are cheating with led displays that show waveforms/bpms etc too but we wont go there

[russell]

I just did a quick youtube search on the whole quantized loops and correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't it just let you not screw up your loop so you don't have to press out in time? Making it for lazy people who can't keep in time with their loops? Correct me if im wrong but isn't that feature kinda the cheats way to do things just like the BPM lock feature?

I like your attitude.

[Lumi]

Well i thought all well and good to have all this super duper shit at your finger tips that makes you able to do all this amazing stuff, but whats the point if you haven't learnt your basics to that level that its just automatic, instead you need a button that means you can never stuff up a loop or don't have to adjust bpms to the beat, which brings me to a question.

Learn what is the best way to mix differing BPMs is it to change the pitch before playing the song so that the BPMs match up, or is it better to as i've watch on one youtube video to pitch and adjust until the beat match so you learn by ear when the beats are matched up and then just to be 100% check the BPM counter on the CDJs to make sure there the same?

[russell]

The best way if you want to be able to do it naturally is to ignore the BPM counters all times. Train your ears to listen to the 2 tracks at the same time. This is by no means easy but if you practice enough you'll get it.

[Mitch]

That Q is probably for a new thread, but just to anser quickly, definately by ear.

BPM reader on CDJs is only to the nearest BPM, so for example if you have a song playing at 127.2 BPM it only shows 127. That isn't precise enough to get them matched. Also, the BPM readers are not always 100% accurate, so you need to train your ears up to be able to set the pitch faders in the right spot. Refer to how to DJ thread (amongst others) in beginner section for some basic tutorials on beatmatching)

[Lumi]

Alright cheers for the help on everything guys, just sent off an email enquiry to JB about the CDJ 850-K so hopefully in two or three weeks time once i get all my christmas and birthday monday along with all the public holidays coming up at work will be able to invest in them. Once again cheers for everything and hopefully i'll be able to get my name out there soon

[Mitch]

No probs man, let us know how you get on

[Gandy]

Well i thought all well and good to have all this super duper shit at your finger tips that makes you able to do all this amazing stuff, but whats the point if you haven't learnt your basics to that level that its just automatic, instead you need a button that means you can never stuff up a loop or don't have to adjust bpms to the beat, which brings me to a question.

im not disagreeing, i learnt the traditional way before there was all this new technology and spent months upon months upon months of learning and training my ear, and it also helped that i have very solid musical theory background. Still get a nervous/traumatic twitch everytime i hear satisfaction...

but look at todays market with multi coloured wave form dvs packages with auto everything (sync/looping/samples etc), as technology advances its just going to become more about how creative you can be with the way you can manipulate multiple tracks playing at the same time rather than if you can beatmatch and manual loop.

[imadje]

If you want to scratch at all you will need the visual " clock " display which shows where in rotation you are. This is on the 850 but not the 350. This display copies the way djs used a mark on the vinyl label to give a visual clue to where a sound occurred on each rotation. It is reproduced in some format on all dvs but not on the more basic cdjs.

[russell]

as technology advances its just going to become more about how creative you can be with the way you can manipulate multiple tracks playing at the same time rather than if you can beatmatch and manual loop.

I don't know. It looked that way for years granted, but there's been a resurgence in the vinyl market in the last year or so which to me says a lot of poeple are reverting back to the old ways. Now i'm not saying it's going to be a sweeping trend that will kill off technology but there's a definite interest in the back to basics school of DJ'ing.

Of course I'm basing this opinion on the european market as thats what I know.

[eggssell]

There is amove Back to turntables, i wouldnt say move back to vinyl. Though the both go hand in hand and vinyl sales prob didnt drop, but i personally doubt they would have gone up!

The seconds market prob had a lot more buzz.

[Gandy]

as technology advances its just going to become more about how creative you can be with the way you can manipulate multiple tracks playing at the same time rather than if you can beatmatch and manual loop.

I don't know. It looked that way for years granted, but there's been a resurgence in the vinyl market in the last year or so which to me says a lot of poeple are reverting back to the old ways. Now i'm not saying it's going to be a sweeping trend that will kill off technology but there's a definite interest in the back to basics school of DJ'ing.

Of course I'm basing this opinion on the european market as thats what I know.

brb moving to europe

[imadje]

lol, in some clubs one dude playing an acoustic guitar and singing folk is still popular.

I'm not dissing it. I'm just saying that whenever a scene has arisen their will be fans who will maintain their love for that scene in it's original form. The scene may evolve but as long as enough customers are into it to keep it alive in some tiny form then new fans will also invariably find it and occasionally cause a revival.

Each to their own. evolvers evolve, old skoolers stick to the old skool, we have a world full of variety and it is good.

[russell]

vinyl sales prob didnt drop, but i personally doubt they would have gone up!

The seconds market prob had a lot more buzz.

Actually vinyl sales increased 55% alone in the first half of 2011 in the UK alone, 41% in the US. There was a low point in sale a few of year ago (perhaps the recession had a hand in that too?) but it has steadily grown over the last 4 years and took a big jump this year. That not just dance music either.

However, when it comes to electronic music there's so much stuff coming out only on vinyl again. Vakula, vinalog, omar-s, Anton Zap, Alex Agore, the numerous white labels... the list could go on for a while.

one fine series of vinyl only releases are the workshop ep's....

[eggssell]

shit huh.

thats good to hear. i know chatty jb vinyl collection has slowly grown too. pretty much all pop/ top 40 albums come out. too badd their hip hop section grows by four albums a year.

i wish i could buy everything i want on vinyl. but if you haven already read somewhere i have music ADD, so unfortunately my cashflow couldnt handle my habit if my choice of vice was vinyl only.

but then again i guess i dont always need all the music i buy to dj, but it would be nice to have it available just in case.

[Lumi]

Okay well this blows, no where in Australia are the CDJ 850-K's being sold. JB have gotten back to me saying that and priced the silver 850s at $1169, but they will have to price match if not beat the price of dj warhouse and dj store where they are there for around $940. I also currently have a guy from eBay that i'm enquiring to about who has only used his 900s once, and is asking for 1.1k a piece i was wondering if i can get him down to around 1.8 for the pair would if be better to go straight for the 900s then the 850s if i manage such a deal ?