dropping on the one - help on cueing

[eggssell]

okay you know how i have this super awesome mix that i can't get up. well basically i decided to try something different. a couple of weeks ago street mentioned outro to intro mixing. which ive never really done. i remember a couple years back when i started, i asked the question here whether there was a diff mentality between the mixtape/ internet mix (tenminminimix) AND club mixing. and the consensus was not really i.e. people still do about 2 minutes per song then on to the next one. but i decided to give it a go.

it meant there was more time to beatmatch, so i think i got that down pack pretty good. but i started to realise i had a different problem. i.e. dropping the one beat properly.

for some reason a lot of the times i would miss the mark, then i would have to tweak the spindle or touch the platter to match the tracks up. i even did the change speed to 45 trick for a second to catch the beat.

only prob was sometimes i would fark around so much that i had to give up, and then have to spin the record right back and then wait for the next available 32 before dropping the 1.

since i dont really plan my mixes it wasnt that big a deal but because i was doing outro/ intro mixes i could sometimes see the end of the song coming! (and if i ever get it up you will see one shocker where i just chucked the track in out of desperation. it ended up phasing and clashing badd!)

my method is usually to count the beats and actually hit the beat (pushing the record over the beat) on just the numbered ones below i.e dashes im just counting but not hitting. if that makes sense.

1 - - - - - - -

2 - - - - - - -

3 - - - - - - -

4 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

drop

so any tips on cueing? how do you count it down before you drop?

i know cdj's is a little diff in method, but interesting to hear other peoples cueing methods.

cheers

[Mitch]

Im on cdjs, but I normally just count 1 2 3 4 in my head, then tap my finger on the last 4 beats of the phrase next to the play button, then hit the play button on the 1, listen in the headphones and make a nudge if needed before bringing the fader up too much.

[Jaz]

i was going to suggest loops but remembered your on vinyl tables, but if your mixer has a roll function your could use that, or if your on DVS you can always use the loops in the software

then at least if you miss your shot its gonna come around again

[eggssell]

True. Yes i use a dvs. Though havent really hot keyed or anything. and trying to avoid for now as i do mix at the holmies on straight up vinyl. But yeah will keep in mind.

Mixer doesnt have roll. Speaking of which in this mix, i even used my first effect in a mix! Wuu huu. Haha only because i once got desperate on how to transition so ended up echoing out a track.

Used mixers echo though. I dont really understand traktors effects nor have looked into it. Gotta learn to mix first

[mattus123]

another thing worth double checking is to make sure that the cue starts on beat

i dont know how vinyl works, cause i havent had the pleasure of using it

There have been a couple of times where i have had to reset a cue cause its start slightly off beat.

the way i count is normally sometihng liek 1 2 3 4, 2 2 3 4, 3 2 3 4, 4 2 3 4 etc

i rarely need to coutn that far as i can normally tell when the start of a new phrase is about to start. i find tapping on the decks (atleast a bar before dropping the track) in time to the music helps, so when it comes to dropping in hte track, my finger is hitting hte decks in time with the song.

[eggssell]

Yeah no need to set the cue on vinyl, just find a one beat

But yeah my "pushing"the one beat for one bar is kind of like your tapping, i just sometimes get to that last eight count and mess up!

Might just need practice. But yeah cheers

[pundaddy]

i usually just catch the end of a phrase, count in my head:

"1,2 .... 1,2,3,4", then boom goes the play button on that 5th beat.

[street]

im a drummer so i guess i have a bit of an advantage, but heres what i remember doing when starting out.

so lets say:

normal = counting in ur head

bold = cue button

red = play button

so id count along in my head for the first 3 bars, then on the 4th bar id tap the cute button every 1/8th note and then on the 5th bar id hit play.

1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4

i just find that hitting the cue button kind sharpens your response time, rather than just hitting play once, but seeing as your on turntables, you could try just tapping the deck itself then on the first beat of the new phrase push the record over the first beat.

[eggssell]

Hey thanks guys. Yeah so i think everyone does the same-ish counting in. Which is good to know.

Ill keep practicing

[Mitch]

Your probably not too far off with what your doing now man, just needa work on the timing of your release. So count in your head, with a few bars to go start rocking over that first beat and work on the timing of that release. There is obviously more of an art to it on TTs than CDJs. I haven't used TTs myself, but basic principle is all the same, is its all about getting a feel for the timing of when you need to release that track and when you keep practicing and get better you'll find your timing will get better and won't have to nudge the platter as much / if at all

[eggssell]

Yeah i think sometimes on counting that last 8 i prob get too anxious and drop one beat too late, or i push too hard and end up one beat too early.

I find chasing a beat if i drop too late a little easier to catch up

But if im ahead from the drop i really struggle to get it back in time

But yeah maybe ill count a few more bars in just to get the rhythm in my veins

[JonnyB]

for me its knowing my track, and also just learning how genre's are structured, so you can just tell when the section is going to come up.

its alot easier on cdj's being able to tap tap tap the cue button though.

but yeah just count in my head, if i do end up missing it, i just fast forward the track 16 bars really quickly, cue it up, wait for the outgoing track to hit 16 bars into the drop then play the second track, beatmatch it and bring it in, in 16 bars

if ya get me

[SourceRaver]

What kind of turnies do you have?

If your using less expensive belt driven turntables, you sometimes need to give it a really strong push to get it up to the same speed as the turntable platter. You need to practice 'throwing' the record otherwise it be slightly ahead or behind the beat of the track thats already playing. If your turntables are REALLY cheap, touching the platter to correct the difference can be a nightmare as the platter with slow down too much, or speed up too fast so you may as well start again. Direct drive TTs are better as they have more resistance (or torque) to any changes you make so you are less likely to over or under throw the record.

One trick is to rock the record back and forward in time with the beat and then throw it on the correct beat (see above), much like you would with a cdj. Dont worry, you wont wear out the record or the needle.

Once you've nailed throwing the record, its much easier and faster to identify if the incomming track is slower is faster or slower than the outgoing track.

Another trick is to always over pitch the incomming track, that way you know that its always going to be too fast. Drop the beat, (1) touch the edge of the platter to slow it down, (2) adjust the pitch slightly, (3) listen...repeat from step 1. until you get it right.

[eggssell]

Hey thanks source. I have direct drive (st 150s) so cant blame the equip for my inadequacies.

Yeah i rock the beat before dropping, i think like you said i just got to get that throw technique down.

And its not on the pitching bit but more when im ready to do the mix.

As i mentioned above i find if i throw late i find it a little easier to catch it up

But if i throw too hard and end up in front i really struggle to get it back. And end up touching the platter then pushing on the label and do that a couple of times, then giving up and starting again.

So i guess its just practice practice practice

Thanks everyone!

[SourceRaver]

I find slowing the incomming record the easiest, just a matter of running your finger along the edge of the turning platter. Sometimes its just a really slight touch for a fraction of a second. Other times you just run your finger along the platter edge in a long single stroking fashion.

Speeding it up is a bit more difficult. I get the record up to speed by pushing on the label. Some people grab the spindle (metal 'pole' in the middle) and give it a slight twist.

Some Dj gods dont even touch the platter or record, they just use the pitch slider and 'ride the pitch'...

At my best I used to get the records in beat to about 95% by touching the record or spindle and then get it matched by tiny adjustments to the pitch.

[chrismak]

As i mentioned above i find if i throw late i find it a little easier to catch it up

But if i throw too hard and end up in front i really struggle to get it back.

Its the opposite for me. I found touching the side of the platter to slow the incoming track is a lot easier and more forgiving than speeding it up by spinning the spindle. If i need to speed it up i use the pitch as was mentioned above.

To ensure its thrown accurately in the first place I get into the rhythm by moving the incoming record back and forward over the cue point to the existing track's beat about 8 beats before the drop or "1".

[imadje]

bit late to this party but I'm with chris and source here.

Eggs: I know you are already rocking the beat and you know how to count so I would come at this from another angle altogether... get into scratching it. Headphones off, fader open, hear everything, feel the groove, feel the music, stop counting coz you already know where the groove is, rock the beat, scratch the beat and let go when it feels right. Once you get it coming easy you can go back to using 'phones.

Lots of headz always figure scratching was invented by people just trying to drop the first beat in time anyway.

[eggssell]

yeah cheers man. i think i got the right technique just not best execution.

as with chris' comment i scratch the beat its just i either prematurely blow or push too hard.

jizm, so im not just counting i am actually scratching (rocking) the beat. but yeah need to practice and feel it.

oh and chris, as of late (because i was so rusty) i havent been hot dropping. so ive been dropping with the line faders down. so it kinda doesnt matter speeding it up. but i know what you mean about speeding up being too obvious and coming through the sound.

in fact when im one beat behind i even do that change the turntable speed from 33 to 45 for a split second to catch that beat. and then only when im in beat do i bring the line faders up. wussy i know.

i did do that mix last december where i was hot dropping everything because i was working with lyrics. cant believe i went so far backwards this year just for being out the game for a few months.

[SourceRaver]

Hey Eggs...

I originally learnt to mix on the second beat. Cue up the second beat on the record player and drop it on the second beat of the bar. I still do it on CDjs.

The resason I was given for doing it is that when a break happens, or some other significant change in the music, you always had a least one beats warning. If you know the music its not a problem but if your playing someone elses music (ie back to back mixing), it can save your ass some days.

It also drives my Dj friends crazy cause they think I've screwed up the mix by dropping it on the wrong beat.

[eggssell]

hmmmmm. that sounds pretty interesting. might have to give it a go. and yeah your right it can give you that one beat to not drop if it turns out not the right time.

might be a bit harder for things other than four on the floor as the second beat might be a hihat or snare which isnt so distinct, and may make it harder to rock the beat. but yeah for sure ill give it a go.

[imadje]

^snare hits are pretty distinct bro. Hip Hop mixes often include a drop on the snare. It gives that snappy clack sound instead of the predictable thud of a kick drum on the one.

p.s. "djizm" lol

[fackedd]

Also try not to smash the cue button too hard/often while you are cueing up, I know alot of people that do it and it fucks up the lifespan of the buttons. Alot of clubs have fucked up play and cue buttons because of this. Not designed to be hit like that.

Obviously if they are your own it's not really a problem because they aren't being used as much.

[eggssell]

Im using turnies. But nice tip for others. Must suck when someone is smashing yer buttons

[imadje]

I use mine in lessons with kids and have had to replace the switches twice. not a pricey job but a pain if the service centre is a long way away.

The first sign you're switch is going is that you no longer hear the "click" when you press it. It still works but doesnt depress at all. The second stage is random play/pausing when you arent touching yet.

guess which stage you should go for repair at?

[fackedd]

^^^

yep, all the buttons on every cdj are fucked at a few of the places I play, it's really fkn annoying.

but funnily enough the cue and play/pause is actually connected as the same button in some way. So once you fuck the cue button up.... play/pause is gone too. I was talking to pioneer rep about, basically the cue button isn't designed for it but everyone seems to smash it a million times before they drop in the next track, I admit I was guilty of it too.

I ended up changing my ways and tapping on the side instead of the cue. It's fine to press it a few times obviously to make sure you have set the cue in the right place, just not every beat before actually dropping the track in.