what is your TSP latency

[dim]

I use a dell inspiron off the shelf pc: 1.8ghz processor, 2gb ram, I get 5.5ms latency with my NI8 using timecode cds in pioneer cdj1000s (you can tell in the preferecnes/options section of TSP). I always thought that was ok and just figured the sloppiness in my mixing was me being lazy, out of practise or drunk.

My mate comes up on sat with a powermac, has 1ms latency and I was a fookin DMC world champion contender again, felt like begin young all over!

As I say I've always been diggin what i got and I can modify my playing just like I modify if the room has a delay but now i know what i'm missing.

what do you consider reasonable latency? what is your processor, ram and are you vinyl/timecode or what controller do you use?

[eggssell]

mine is on 5.5ms too

im using 2.33 ghz dual core, i think 4gb ram, five year old lappy.

i dont particularly scratch, except maybe the occassional wigga wigga cut.

or i do the preview thing. you know drop one word quickly spin the deck back and keep just dropping that one word before releasing.

so got to say havent noticed any significant delays from movement to sound.

though i aint an old schooler on tts like yerself.

[dim]

cool, interesting stuff man, makes me wonder what sort of processor would be needed to get down to the 1ms my mate claims he gets from his mac.

Or perhaps it is more of a windows/ Mac OS issue not a processor speed issue?

which are you on eggs, PC or MAC?

[eggssell]

PC

[dim]

man, it's a little scary to think all that extra processor and ram and you get the same latency as me. I'm PC too of course, windows XP.

Just seen a thread about a DSP latency checker at:

http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

apparently it checks if anything else is causing latency which the traktor readout will not notice.

anyone run it, anyone got any news?

I may run it some day when I'm in audio mood but am on admin this avo.

[tubby]

Try to start and stop a stopwatch as Fast as you can. At best you might get 10ms. The difference between 1 & 5 is not going to be noticeable, but processor trying up keep up may struggle. Might bd ok most of the time but I'd still expect drop out now and then

[dim]

My reactions are way slower than that but the difference between 1ms as shown on his mac and 5.5 ms on my pc was very noticeable to the ears. It's not about reaction time, it's about noticing delay between your action and the audios reaction. If you were mixing in a room that had a 10ms delay you would notice it. at 5ms I had to have it pointed out to recognise it as had assumed I was at fault.

But maybe there is more to this than just the traktor readout?

have you heard of this dsp latency checker tubby?

[eggssell]

hey djim. im pretty sure i could reduce it its just it worked

on 5.5 so i left it.

i remember reading an article sayin it was a good number.

in regards to that latency thang. yeah everyone on NI forum raves about it.

[wazza]

you cant get 1ms latency ....there is no sound card made that will give you 1 ms latency

the 5.5 ms latency you are getting is more like 8 to 9 ms total system latency

the 5.5 ms latency you see in traktor is just the latency for the software not total system latency

when the audio ( time code ) go's into your sound card it go into 1 buffer (the input buffer ) then into your software ( into another buffer ) & then to the output buffer....this round trip though you set up.. from your cdj 1000s to the sound card to your PC back to your sound card to your mixer & though the 3 buffer adds latency...........that is total system latency

[dim]

you cant get 1ms latency ....there is no sound card made that will give you 1 ms latency

the 5.5 ms latency you are getting is more like 8 to 9 ms total system latency

the 5.5 ms latency you see in traktor is just the latency for the software not total system latency

when the audio ( time code ) go's into your sound card it go into 1 buffer (the input buffer ) then into your software ( into another buffer ) & then to the output buffer....this round trip though you set up.. from your cdj 1000s to the sound card to your PC back to your sound card to your mixer & though the 3 buffer adds latency...........that is total system latency

hey wazza, yer man, i was just realising that by researching a bit further.

the 1ms latency my mate gets is just what traktor shows not the total system latency. All i know is using his machine was much more like the response to scratching I used to get on vinyl than my DVS gets.

I'm interested now I've felt the actual difference in response times, especially as I am about to swap to a midi controller and new devoted PC. I really want to understand this latency issue so I can choose the best response for vinyl emulation.

you ever tried this dsp latency checker? does it give you a better idea of what total system latency is? or do you know a better way to discover total system latency?

[wazza]

DSP latency checker is a good tool...give it ago

it will not only give you an idear off your total system latency but also tell you what software you have running in the back ground on your pc, which is adding latency

5.5 latency from a DELL 1.8 with 2 gig ram under XP

is as tight as I think your going to get

better pc with more ram (& tune for audio ) ...will give you better latency

[dim]

wazza: good info mate.

I'll run the dsp thing but if you have time can you explain a bit more on how to "tune for audio" pls?

links would be fine mate.

[wazza]

take a look at this post & videos for more info about tuning your PC for audio & DSP latency checker

http://www.ausdjforums.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5026

you dont need a big bad-ass p.c for low latency time code vinyl + midi controller

in this video I'm using a old p4 2.4 with 1 gig off ram with a Edirol fa 66 sound card...it gets 3 to 5 ms total system latency

in the software ( mixvibes DVS 7 ) I'm sending time code audio to my VESTAX pdx 3000 mk2 for vinly control & midi to the same sound card at the same time to control the 16 pad sampler in the software from the roland mv 8000 + I'm sending midi from another midi port on the sampler ( roland mv 8000 ) to my vestax pdx 3000 + midi by usb from the edirol pcr 500 midi keyboard to the mixvibes DVS software to control the Moog VSTi I have loaded into one off the time code vinyl decks in the software.......thats 2 midi controls + time code vinyl control and still no more than 3 to 5 ms total system latency from a old p4 laptop

[dim]

wow...

and flutter!

it's all about the tune up ey.

cheers man, will chk that thread l8r but if you get that response from all that gear on a p4 then it stands to reason I must be able to decrease my overall latency with a bit of tuning.

thanx again

+rep.

[eggssell]

wazza wazza hes our man i he cant do it no on can.

always comin thru with the down low!

[dim]

happy happy happy update:

followed all the advice on the link from wazza, all drivers updated and PC fully optimised for audio.

Ran dsp checker while running traktor via timecode through ni8 plus ableton via ni8 recording back to traktor and with an ancient m-audio ozone as ableton midi controller:

max overall system latency: 567nanoseconds or 5.5ms.

so this may seem to be the same as the original setting traktor was giving me but that is not overall system latency. Using the dsp checker showed me where I was getting CPU usage spikes and some of these were up to 20ms. So having sorted the offender (which was the ozone) my whole rig now runs (and feels) as good as my mates mac.

I also got to shove it in the mac users face by explaining that the traktor latency read out is not overall system latency so he doesnt really know what latency he has!

cheers again wazza, if i ever get to oz the first rounds on me.

for now just another +rep

[legunner]

my latency with my s4 soundcard is 7ms and i cant notice anything. pretty good i think. anything between 0-10 is great.

[wazza]

It sounds about right ...5.5ms total system latency from your 1.8 under XP is as tight is your going to get

why I get 3 to 5 ms total system latency is because my sound card is firewire which is faster than USB 1.1 & usb 2.....and I run a high sample rate ( 96 khz )..not 44.1 or 48 like traktor uses...

+ I run a custom made OS ( XP pro made for audio )

NOW... to fix your M-Audio OZONE midi controller

to get that running tight as and problam free

are you using the midi controller by usb...???

if you are you can try a midi 6 pin cable & plug it from the OZONE midi output into the midi input on the Audio 8 sound card....now your not running midi usb 1.1 from OZONE midi controller but midi usb 2 from the Audio 8......when you plug more than one usb device to your laptop your system share usb power for both ports..( more so if its usb 1.1 device & usb 2 device together )doing this can give you problams and can add latency

[dim]

Good skills once again wazza.

I had got in the habit of putting my akai mpc through the midi in on the ni8 so cant believe I never thought of using the ozone that way when it is just a controller.

Thing is sometimes i use the ozone as controller and soundcard with ableton in lessons i give and i guess I just got used to using it via usb (a midi will not transfer audio).

TBH I dont often use the ozone with ableton and traktor tho, it's just one project I'm on where I'm going to be doing that.

I ran all the optimisation stuff with everything going to be sure I had the best possible but at my gigs will only use traktor and NI8.

also in a short while I hope to get the numark ns6 and a macbook so this DVS system will become my backup and used mainly just for lessons I give.

It was still totally worthwhile getting my head round all this tho bro, and i know who to ask if anything crops up in the future so cheers again.

One final q:

do you know of any current midi controllers that also act as soundcards? I cant find any at my usual stores. it's as if the manufacturers have decided we need two boxes now! one to do sound and one for control... why cant we have it one box again like the ozone does?

[legunner]

One final q:

do you know of any current midi controllers that also act as soundcards? I cant find any at my usual stores. it's as if the manufacturers have decided we need two boxes now! one to do sound and one for control... why cant we have it one box again like the ozone does?

traktor s4 has a built in soundcard.. if thats what you mean?

[dim]

ez karma, sorry no i dont mean dj controllers, i mean studio midi controllers... things like the mpd or trigger finger, no platters... just lots of knobs, buttons, faders and maybe keys?

but also with audio... so you can control ableton with one external unit doing control and audio.

[legunner]

ohhh okay sorry man, i wouldn't have a clue hey.