Rusty1 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I've recently upgraded to a Pioneer XDJ-RX and I've been trying to get used to DJ'ing without auto gain. I've been having a lot of problems though and It's really effected my performances at parties. I usually turn the trims down a bit (I don't keep them at 12 o'clock). Now I'll have a track playing and Ill be watching the VU meter. Then I'll cue up the next track and tap the cue button and look at where that track is peaking on the VU meter and adjust it to match the song playing out. Seems all good right? but its not, I've found that when I do this and try to mix these two songs together the volumes are very different. Sometimes quieter sometimes louder. I've also tried to just completely forget about the VU meter and just listen to the tracks in my headphones but this still doesn't help much and it takes way too long to do it. Like what is going on here? Balancing my levels is getting way too difficult and frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRat Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 It comes back to trusting your ears. It's all good looking at the meter but it's not going to help much. Best way is to bring the track in and adjust the trims as you're bringing it in Rusty1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty1 Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 Ok so you are always adjusting the trims. Is it bad to bring in a song too quite (or loud) and then adjust the trim? This always happens to me when I drop a track on the 1. Do you have any other tips for adjusting trims? I know different songs have different dynamic ranges and RMS volumes so should I assume something with little dynamics has a very loud volume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRat Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 You adjust the trim's on the fly but it's not something you'll need to be doing very much. Each track is going to be slightly louder or quieter than the previous but often enough there's not a lot of difference between them so you can leave the trim levels as they are but you always listen and adjust accordingly. It's always better to bring in a track that's quieter rather than louder because the transition is much cleaner. I wouldn't assume anything because if you're wrong you'll be back at square 1. Monitor the levels in your headphones with the cue level knob at 12 o'clock so you have even mix levels in your headphones. That's the best way hear how the cue'd track will sound once you begin the transition and as you bring it in you can hear it and be the judge of it then. As far as other tips go, there's not much more to say apart from practise and you'll get there. You may notice that when you're bringing in your cue'd track and you switch the bass levels over, the new track might get a bit louder? When you adjust the EQ you're also adjusting the volume as you filter in and out frequencies. It can make a fairly noticeable gain change so that's when you adjust the trim down to compensate for it. If you have your levels right in your headphones that transition will be seamless and you'll barely need to play with the trims. Also, make the booth monitor your friend. It's there to help you hear your transitions and levels. You don't win any battles when you're trying to hear your mix with speakers facing away from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty1 Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 Alright thanks for the tips. I'll just keep practising until I get the hang of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggssell Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 also when both tracks are in the mix the main can get louder so you may need to keep tweaking as you bring up the channel fader. sometimes if you want elements of the outbound track to remain you need to even turn it up a little as you bring the fader down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 -Do an A-B in your headphones with all the EQ's in the same spots (generally 12 o clock) and tweak a bit if necessary. As spitfire said, shouldn't need to tweak much. -If you're using legit, quality mp3 or wav files there won't be huge* variance in track levels. If you're getting tracks from dodgy sources the levels can be all over the shop -Use EQs when you're mixing. If you have both tracks fader up and all the EQs up on both tracks, it will sound louder while they're playing together, then you'll get a volume drop when you bring one of the tracks out. There should be some good EQ vids in the sticky threads. *from a DJ perspective. Up for debate from a production/engineering perspective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRat Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Production is a bit different there so all valid mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty1 Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 Thanks for all the replies. I produce a lot and I understand how to eq and I know that when similar frequencies add up so does the overall volume. I always have the new songs bass eq cut and then I either switch gradually or dramatically depending on the mix I'm doing. I think my problem was that I was over trimming. I don't mean that I was turning them up to much I mean I was just touching and adjusting them too much. After Mitch said that the variance in volume shouldn't be too much I realised that I was probably trimming the tracks a bit too much. I just had a quick play around and it's going good. I still listen in my headphones but I hardly adjust the trim anymore and if I feel I need to I only do it a little bit. So far its been working but I'm still not perfect so I'm going to just keep playing around with it until I get there. Also some of my hip hop tracks have like crazy low volumes. I've done some research and apparently other people have had the same issue with hiphop tracks so I dunno maybe its a mastering thing that they do? I don't produce hip hop I only produce electronic in which we do the opposite and crush the hell outta the master. thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabRat Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 If some tracks are quiet it could be from a variety of different things. 2 of the main ones are shit quality or they've been mastered to have dynamic range. Not everyone slams the volume as loud as they can get it. EDM is probably the worst for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NitroMonkey Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Let's start with the basics... One can and will always assume that 2 tracks in your cue will always have different gain levels. Even with auto gain (depending on how it is configured [peak, average, sustained]) you will have varied gain volume levels between various tracks. LabRat is correct in saying that you should always trust your ears, but to trust your ears you need years of experience to do this. One thing I suggested to a lot of people is auto levelling software to "fix" out your library of tracks. Platinum Notes is made by the same company that makes Mixed In Key (another fantastic analysis tool I have used for years). What it does is corrects the pitch of some tracks that may not be 100% accurate, the volumes of all tracks to make them all similar for live performances, and you can make your own preset or buy one you like that suits your style. Now, I have to say that anyone starting out today as a DJ has it bloody easy compared to when I started out or those before me. The first mixer I used at my first gig was a RANE in house mixer which had no gain meters on any of the 4 channels, only a master gain level. Back then I barely mixed CD as I had a pretty extensive record collection of Trance music, so gain level were determined by my ears. Another point that can be made is that almost all music that is being made much "wall-to-wall" in their gain levels with high amounts of compression to achieve this. In most cases lots of compression makes a track sound louder, but in effect are not louder according to the gain levels. So you still have to trust your ears regardless of software or gain levels emitted from a track in your mix. Oh and I read that you understand how to EQ and that you produce a lot yourself? I hope you understand the thing us sound guys absolutely hate about DJs that do not understand audio::1+1 = +3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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