exams in DJing

[djschooluk]

ok - so i'm coming back to you lot to test the water here.

Short version: Would you contribute/donate to a team of people who were trying once and for all to write the book on how to DJ and how to examine/assess a DJs ability? To put it another way - do you really believe DJing is the equivalent of classical violin or rock guitar, should be taught in schools as such, and are willing to put your money where your mouth is to prove it?

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Long version: In the UK the standard exams school kids do are called GCSE - the music GCSE involves a performance - recently we (DJSchoolUK) have been asked to help write the assessment criteria so they can include DJing as a performance art.

Good right?

But they aren't giving it enough care, time or attention IMHO. Not even equivalent to music technology which they added a year or two ago.

So I am thinking - if a group of experienced folk like us were to independently set up a crowd funding appeal - asking DJs the world over to contribute a few pennies/cents or whatever each - so we could take the time to really write up a complete curriculum and assessment criteria - for worldwide DJs at any point on the skill spectrum - so that students really could prove their worth and get qualified...

who would pay?

who would want to study?

who would think it a waste of time?

and also - do such curriculums exist already? if so at what level/ages/countries do they apply?

We (DJSchoolUK) already have an informal curriculum but no dedicated examining body and so no qualification.

The existing qualifications available in the UK are out of date or only cover mixing/beat-matching not turntablism or controllerism.

FYI - on our board of directors are a head of music working in a UK school at the relevant level, and Pro DJs with worldwide success.

We also have confirmed input from world champion turntablists and a professor of music psychology.

I'm not naming them outright as we are just testing the water here, but we think we have the credentials.

Thoughts?

[AlexJ]

you dont need to write a book on djing, 1hr of youtube is faster, more convenient and would have greater effectiveness than a paperback

djing is so easy nowadays no-one would buy/commit funds for such a publication when they can access it from free all over the web

a venture like this is simply doomed to fail and not become financial

[djschooluk]

Thanks for the reply alex.

out of interest - do you do any turntablism?

and what genres do you mainly play?

[eggssell]

hmmm i think a book can have its merits but of course visual always helps. and hands on being the best.

i bought this (i cant remember where i got the heads up from) and thought it was awesome

http://www.bookdepository.com/How-DJ-pr ... 0593058114

and i rection lots of good info there.

though reading your comment above, its more than the guide. its about formalising a teaching method (or one teaching method) and then creating a way to be able to grade students and certify the graduate.

and then i assume make this transferable so people can replicate it. i.e. like other forms of music training

hmmmmmmmmmm

like all "art" or subjects that require creativity, parts can be taught.

the techniques of djing can definitely be taught and graded.

the creative aspect... a little tougher

whether it can gain enough ground, e.g. companies like to hire cpa/ ca qualified accountants because they know in the most part these people are bound by their professional association

would people/ venues/ business consider a dj with a certificate over others without? definitely not in the current environment.

people will still likely look to reviews and reputations esp for like weddings.

venues will always consider popularity and bringing in crowd ability.

i guess its kind of like half the musicians playing in the live scene are not musically trained.

whether it can get financial backing, will likely depend on if their can be financial gain

i think there may be just enuff demand for dj schools to be around. they would likely need to align with dj shops(seen in syd but kind of died. and have seen in singapore); maybe dance schools; or other music based schools.

[eggssell]

having said that about finance, i was thinking more from the part of would people pay to have a copy of the programme to then setup a school

on the other hand can you get money to crowdsource to create. id say theres a big chance.

im sure a lot of people in the scene (and thats OGs to the new scene) are happy to contribute to help keep the scene going

[djschooluk]

Yes Eggs,

It's not "a book" as such - it's a curriculum - i.e. the steps needed to formally "learn" an instrument and the means for teachers to assess the same. Just as "learning" guitar or violin academically involves hands on practise and assessed performances so would a DJ curriculum. No different to needing a practical side to learning how to cook. No teacher claims to be able to teach creativity - we just teach the steps to unlock it.

and yeah you are right - I'm not suggesting all DJs would need qualifications here - bar and club DJs will still be booked on reputation and ability just as guitarists and bands are. Just like you said "i guess its kind of like half the musicians playing in the live scene are not musically trained." BUT up until now its ALL DJs who are not trained. What we hope is to redress the balance - to bring DJing as a musical art form in line with other instruments so that DJs can be booked (by those who want to do so) as recording session artists, theatres, orchestras, etc etc - just opening up many more doors in the vast world of the music industry which rep alone cannot open.

wrote the above before your added comment but aye. We have got the idea as existing schools in mainstream education are having fewer kids taking up music - rendering whole departments under-subscribed - but at the same time there are heaps of kids who would study music more if it involved DJing and respected the art form as much as traditional instruments.

Cool comments and i'll check out that link mate.

[djschooluk]

oh lol - just checked the link - that book is great but out of date - one of our goto texts for useful diagrams but

[SolDios]

oh lol - just checked the link - that book is great but out of date - one of our goto texts for useful diagrams but

Mixing is a skill that especially on turntables doesn't go out of date.

Also books aren't a great teaching method for Dj'ing when we have more suitable mediums available such as Videos.

[djschooluk]

sorry yes - you're right, mixing skills are timeless.

I only mean that book is out of date as it mentions CDJs very briefly and was written before any controllers were invented.

...and no one here is intending to write an actual book. I used the term "write the book" in the OP as a metaphor in the same way I could say - if amateur DJs come at me suffering from a Kruger-Manning (1999) mindset I will "throw the book at them."

My bad. i'll try and keep things simpler in future.

[eggssell]

hehe yeh i figured what you were saying and only mentioned the book thing moreso cuz alex brought up books are useless.

and not to keep it going as obviously the post isnt about a book!, but i still disagree that books cant help just because there are videos.

i bought that book after the fact of already mixing and ellaskins etc. and i still got things out of it.

just like with my mpc. im getting more out of a book i bought then all the videos i have ever watched.

but then again im an oldie haha

[djschooluk]

with age comes wisdom old friend

[BitMaestro]

In Australia, we have AMEB grades to do for many instruments.

http://www.ameb.edu.au/practical-exams

I've done classical guitar exams before, you had to choose 3 songs to play out of 3 groups (Group A; song 1,2,3. Group B; song 1,2,3 etc).

The different groups represented different skills need to play the songs, for example, Group A songs were focused on melody, Group B was the ability to play chordal notes and Group C was focused on more complex rhythms.

Then there was a aural test, at the lower levels the questions were what note is higher, what tempo is slower and name the type of chord.

Playing a song on an instrument with written music is pretty straight forward, you play the dots. I can't see how if a student was given a syllabus of allowed songs he'd be able to do an exam for DJing. You could make the Exam a total of 10 minutes, showing ability to transition between 3 songs, with maybe other criteria, but that's as far as I can see it going for the mixing side, and the judging will have to be lenient to creative expression and improvisation as one would with Jazz musicians.

If the exam was focusing on scratch and beat juggle, i'd say look at what drummers have to do for AMEB.

At the high end, you get asked to play any random, if not all of the 40 rudiments at different tempos.

I use drum rudiments as a guides for some scratching, Replacing Right & Left with Back & Forward on the wax.

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/rudiments.php

Not sure if this gave you food for thought or not, I like formal training, but this might not have the appeal for aspiring DJs to learn through such a structure.

[djschooluk]

MATE!

This is exactly the info I was looking for. And yep - I see you recognise what we are up against to try and sort this out. Being fair and allowing for all the various techniques which can be applied to a DJ set is going to be a real headache. But we feel it's time to take it on. If you would be interested (as a musician and DJ) in joining in the consultation phase just hit me up with a PM.

Cheers.

[djschooluk]

ez now -

so dunno if anyone is still following this but we are making good steps towards getting something done about this.

Our next step is market research - to see who really would put their money where their mouth is and get "qualified" as a DJ in the same way a guitarist or violin player can do.

WE ARE NOT SAYING EVERYONE NEEDS TO.

We just wonder how many people do see value in getting a bit of paper that proves you have equal skill to traditional instrumentalists. We think these qualifications could open the door for more of us to work as session recording artists, in theatres, orchestras etc (yeah i know weird idea but embrace the future and see the turntable everywhere- )

So you think I should post the market research survey in ADJF or not?

[eggssell]

nothing to lose putting it up. the cross section is massive (young, old, cd, turnies, digital, broad, elitist, and all genres) but sample size is small. y'oull get the same six or eight regs getting on.

[OxyKon]

I'd be keen to see what it would look like, when seeing it written on paper it's almost what like Rob Swift did back in the day when he was writing his scratch routines down for all to see

[djschooluk]

Cheers Eggs - 7 or 8 regulars but which one is actually Keyser soze?

We're a long way off publishing anything Oxy - we have drafts and are pretty much ready to go but just had meetings with publishers - They want to see the market research before they commit. So we gotta keep taking the right steps and not giving it away... If we get their backing it would be so much bigger and more professionally done than if we go it alone. That way we might actually achieve something.

Business ish innit.

But you make a fair point so if you see a survey from me you can definitely tick the "maybe" box.

[eggssell]

Cheers Eggs - 7 or 8 regulars but which one is actually Keyser soze?

yeah our keyser soze secret was spoilt at the first meet.

we all discovered "cupe" isnt actually one person, its a bunch of students in wollongong all living in the same dorm and this was like a science/ dev/ and psych project.

but now they live off the fat google ad cheques.

oh shit this isnt vip....

[djschooluk]

[OxyKon]

We still need good ol fashion donations to keep this place running, a lot of us fork out quite a few $ to keep the lights on around here

[djschooluk]

yeah fair - I've only given once and that was a past life on these boards.

Being skint personally and running a non-profit means it's hard to give anything but let me see what the School can spare after we've done our financial year accounts in next month or so - might even be tax-deductable.

[OxyKon]

you're already doing a very noble cause with the school, would be great to see some ideas that you have drafted up, i know like eggs was saying, there will be a few of us that could be on board

[djschooluk]

survey is live - https://www.ausdjforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=16871&p=246378#p246378

Seen.

[eggssell]

doh was avoiding opening that thread until i was at home so i could do the survey, but then just clicked on it.

bump it on friday (and on the weekend) in case i forget

i will post in that thread when ive done it so it gets bumped. i suggest everyone else too as well!