DJ, VJ, I propose a new term EJ?

[djschooluk]

It's been a while since I've been on here, but after a fair bit of chatter a few of us at DJ School UK thought this up. It may have been tried before, the intention is to increase the peace/decrease the boredom.

Your thoughts would be valued highly Ladies and Gents of ADJF:

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So the argument/discussion continues – are Digital DJs really DJing?

There is no doubt that the ability to have preset hotcues, loops and multiple sound sources all synchronised automatically is very different from the vinyl approach of old skool turntablists, dub selectors, N soul collectors, or vinyl-only dance DJs (be they House, Drum n Bass or whatever.) But vinyl, digital, CDJ and DVS DJs are all using pre-recorded sounds to generate new music, hopefully in tune with a listening audience.

So why is everyone arguing about who is “keeping it real” or what “DJing” really is?

I think the problem, as is often the case amongst argumentative people, is in the definition.

Vinyl purists use Vinyl Discs and jockey them around to create their sets. They started this game, they do not have any digital ability at all. They are clearly Disc Jockeys or DJs. (FYI – I do not include DVS DJs using timecode vinyl with vinyl purists. Digital Vinyl Systems allow digital loops, sync, hot cues etc and so even though the control surface is vinyl the sound output is not analogue.)

Digital DJs, whether they use DVS, Controller, CDJ or any other digital format can, depending on their equipment, use any number of functions completely unavailable to Vinyl DJs. In some cases these functions could be said to make DJing easier, in many cases these functions push the artform forward and develop completely new styles of making music and entertaining people. One thing is for sure, they do not all use “discs” of any kind. (even CDJ DJs can now use USB flashdrives).

So – for the sake of smoothing over the arguments and debates, I propose a new term: EJ. This is for all the “Electronic DJs” who use digital formats but not necessarily discs at all. It seems to fit the bill to me, and I hope it helps people get over some of their differences.

With the term “EJ” we know we are going to listen to someone who plays digital files, who can feasibly play any song ever made via the magic of the internet, who can pre-prepare and/or remix multiple sources live, and who entertains an audience by using pre-recorded sounds in a new and creative way.

With the term “DJ” we know we are going to listen to someone whose music is only played from analogue vinyl recordings they have taken the time to source, collect and care for, whose manual dexterity dictates what live remixing ability they have, and who entertains an audience by using pre-recorded sounds in a new and creative way.

You will clearly notice the similarity between the two definitions - both are entertaining using pre-recorded sounds, it's everything else that is different.

I have no idea if this re-definition will catch on. Personally I use all formats and enjoy the various different features and pros and cons of vinyl, CDJ, DVS and controller to the same extent that I have driven various vehicles and enjoy the various features and pros and cons that exist between a tractor, a family estate and a fairground bumper car. They are all OK, they just have different applications that suit them. So why not have different terms to explain them?

Peace.

[Cupe]

tbh I thought the 'E' was going to stand for 'Entertainment'.

As in, a performance artist rather than a musician.

I have this discussion all the time, telling people to differentiate between businessman and artists.

But to be honest, if someone puts on a huge show with pyrotechnics, lasers, lights, tigers and explosions, naked dancing women and a huge million dollar sound system, and has motorbikes arrive on stage then blow sparks, with upside-down hanging acrobats above the stage, I think it's obviously already starting to go beyond 'for the love of music'.

There's entertainers, there's musicians, there's performance artists and there's businessman.

The face of not only DJing, but technology on the whole, is going to considerably change over the coming years.

As far as the definition catching on, I don't think anyone pretending to be a musician or performing artist is going to attribute a title to themselves that defines them as someone who can't actually perform the art properly, or do it how the 'true professionals' or 'purists' or whatever you want to name them do it.

I can, however, see it catching on inside the industry, for real professionals to give titles to the little faggots that call themselves DJs (I don't need to define them - you all to know which ones I'm talking about). They are the unpaid david guetta's wannabes.

[eggssell]

i dont think there is a need to differentiate as "DJ" means such a wide variety of things.

and "whose manual dexterity dictates what live remixing ability they have" is too specific.

dont forget DJ is an acronym for disc josckey, a name given for someone who "jockeyed" through music. no remixing needed.

so someone jockeying through digital files is no more or less a dj in my opinion.

too much elitism in the scene already, no need to try and put even more definitions.

[Kodiak]

i dont think there is a need to differentiate as "DJ" means such a wide variety of things.

and "whose manual dexterity dictates what live remixing ability they have" is too specific.

dont forget DJ is an acronym for disc josckey, a name given for someone who "jockeyed" through music. no remixing needed.

so someone jockeying through digital files is no more or less a dj in my opinion.

too much elitism in the scene already, no need to try and put even more definitions.

Agree wholeheartedly.

[djschooluk]

hmmm, interesting...

Cupe - the guys you are talking about are definitely just entertainers, as close to DJs or EJs as Posh Spice is to Singers, and wouldn't come under either of my proposed definitions. I wasn't talking about pre-recorded sets, I was talking about pre-prepared hot cues, loop points etc. Real EJs still mash it up live and this takes real skills and creativity.

Eggs and Kodiak - It's entirely to level the playing field that I'm proposing this redefinition. The only people using "Discs" right now are vinyl only jockeys. Their skill set is as different to "EJs" as the skill set of a classical guitarist to an electric guitarist (effects pedals, loops, tremelo bars etc). I think it should be differentiated but recognised as equal.

When I said "whose manual dexterity dictates what live remixing ability they have" I'm not implying they all have to remix. I am simply saying that if you do hear a creative mix or live remix from a vinyl DJ then you know it is because of his/her manual dexterity, With an EDJ a live remix can be prepared and re-called at the touch of a button. I am also recognising the art of the vinyl "selector" being someone whose skill is in the collection and care of vinyl and who doesn't mix at all. A talent that is really on the back foot since digital files became so ubiquitous.

I'm not trying to be elitist or saying one is better than the other. Simply offering a way for vinyl elitists to accept their EJ brothers as equals without fretting over the differing skill set they have. While Offering the EJs a term relevant to them because they use no discs. In addition the different definition will give an audience a better idea of what to expect. Under this definition if you go to watch a DJ you expect warm analogue vinyl records, possibly mixed, possibly remixed, but only using turntablism. If you go to watch an EDJ you expect to hear cues, loops, effects and multiple sources because those options are available to them at the press of a button. Neither is necessarily better than the other, both require musical skill and creativity, but the methods of production are different. To avoid elitism I believe people should know what to expect. Imagine going to a "guitar" gig expecting flamenco because it is the only style of guitar you know, then hearing jimi hendrix - without the additional explanation of what hendrix does his crowd would most likely be fuming and asking for refunds, this is why things have definitions - so we can choose what we want to take part in.

It's just a thought, and i'm probably not the best at explaining it.

[eggssell]

just a couple more things. while i have gone to see turntablists (another group of people who wanted to be distinguished...), i still dont understand the "go to see a dj" thing. but then im an old fogie. i would go to a club when a particular dj is on cuz i know i could dance to their tracks (kate monroe ftw) but i wouldnt be there to see her per se, i was there to club and get my boogie on.

and i must admit when i went to see scratch perverts and craze i danced my azz off anywho becasue they did sets not routines.

i guess it is about perception. to me the DJ is there to provide you with the music for the night, to ensure you keep your groove, and the good ones can tkae you on the journey. i dont have any other expectations.

aside from that...

it is exactly what you said above though. a guitarist is a guitarist, be it a rhythm guitarist or a lead guitarist or a classical guitarist. that just defines what music and how they play. a twelve string playing guitarist versus a flat bed playing guitarist would not go and differentiate themselves.

and finally i think the idea that crate digging is dead due to mp3's is a fallacy.

i spend just as much effort digging for my digital music. just because there are more tools doesnt mean music is just handed to me. for every 10 tracks that i buy i could listen to a 100. there is just as much art to crate digging at beatport/ juno/ whereever you shop; which is why a common question on all dj sites where do you buy your music and how do you choose. we all have our methods.

yes there are those that just look at aria or itunes or beatport dance top 10. but that was no different from the geezers that walked in and bought the brashs/ hmv/ virgin top 10 and then would smash thru that during their set.

i.e. after all that rant. the downfalls of today i think have always existed.

i will admit, it has made djing more accessible. and for those that survived the great vinyl vs cd war would know, we already saw the writing on the wall.

but is being more accessible really that bad....... must the scene always remain the secretive unreachable secret handshake members only club. fark that. music for everybody!

[djschooluk]

I see your point about crate digging, but I disagree with the guitarist thing. Guitarists now generally show a piccy of themselves with their axe and from this fans can guess what style of music to expect at a gig but when the electric guitar was new on the scene they always defined gigs using that instrument as "rock n roll"guitarists - especially so that classical purists didn't turn up and spoil a vibe by dissing the new style they just didn't understand.

must the scene always remain the secretive unreachable secret handshake members only club. fark that. music for everybody!

Absolultey not old pal - The purpose of my proposed redefinition is to avoid/bypass this secretive handshake club. By giving different styles different names I hope to stop everyone slagging each other off.

Vive la difference!

[yizzle]

i worry about separating 'wax' DJ's and 'electric' DJ's into categories...

in the end are we all not doing the same job? playing music to a crowd that that enjoys it? no matter how it is done?

as a guitar player of a long time there has always been this shitty argument of 'i can do this effect' with a nylon string and 'you use a foot stomp pedal' to create the same thing. please...

Both people are passionate and just as talented. they just find different techniques (and have different walks of life) to achieve and express themselves with same passion and get the same result.

In the visual arts; some paint with brushes and others have gone into new multi-meda (stop motion, cgi etc) but they don't fight all day about how to categorize each other, they just see themselves as artists .. why cant we?

this kinda divisional 'he does this/he does that' to achieve the same result' thought process is what is wrong with music going forward.

what happens if 80% of people today decides they are 'EJ's and not 'DJ's'.. what happens to the term 'DJ' from there?

[eggssell]

There is no doubt that the ability to have preset hotcues, loops and multiple sound sources all synchronised automatically is very different from the vinyl approach of old skool turntablists, dub selectors, N soul collectors, or vinyl-only dance DJs (be they House, Drum n Bass or whatever.)

Digital Vinyl Systems allow digital loops, sync, hot cues etc and so even though the control surface is vinyl the sound output is not analogue.)

a few other things come to mind as i ponder your comments.

so what about people who used labels and stickers on the vinyl to hotcue; or wrote the bpm on the record sleeve as a means of bpm counting; or introduced loopers and samplers into their turntable setup; or relied on premade battle/ sample records.

see even amongst those that used vinyl they had evolved from what was seen in garage club or the streets of new york pre the 80's well before the CD revolution.

i think i mentioned it before about how ztrip incorporates the roland sampler into his mixing. does that make him an Electronic DJ. he definitely wasnt the first.

and not only hip hop. carl cox also uses a looper in his mixing. so where do they sit in the spectrum...

[djschooluk]

hmmm, ok I think I see what's going on here.

I'm aware that all music making DJs are on a spectrum.

I'm aware other artforms have sub-disciplines which they use to help others understand what type of art they produce (painter vs graphic designer, Graf writer vs sculptor) and yet they are all happy to also be called artists.

I'm also aware that divisions are crazy and that half the problem with the DJ scene is people hating on each other for their differences.

I also accept that there are a lot of divisions and that this is the current state of play.

That is why I thought these different terms may help people see their differences, stop arguing about what is best, and most of all recognise the insanity of giving such a lot of hate when, as YSM says, we are all "playing music to a crowd that enjoys it, no matter how it is done?"

But I guess recognising and trying to name divisions doesn't help heal the divisions already present. Cheers for the feedback lads, I knew you'd give it some time.