Help with setup decisions (with some restrictions)?

[Brenchen]

Hey guys,

I've been doing some thinking about controllers and did some reading. The readings suggest if I am someone who practices at home but performs out regularly, a modular setup is the way to go. If it's the other way around, as in play more at home and go out to play at parties occasionally, all-in-one is the way to go.

I am the latter type of people (for now anyway), but I have a couple of dilemma with the current equipment I have.

• Very limited space: I live in a sharehouse so my playing area is limited to my very small bedroom; I don't have a dedicated space to practice on, and everytime I want to practice, it's always an effort taking everything out, find somewhere to put them and practice on them for a little bit then put it away again because it's causing strains on my neck and shoulders
  
• USB port availability: I use a Zenbook for my mixing, which has only 2 USB ports. I tend to use one on mouse, the other on AIO controller (Numark Mixtrack Pro 2). But now having 2 devices, I can only use the trackpad and use the other USB port for my F1

So since I have an AIO controller (with an inbuilt soundcard) and a Kontrol F1, I was wondering whether based on my limitations, it would be good just go with a modular setup and add an X1 to replace the mixtrack pro 2? The mixtrack pro will not be unused, but at the moment space is an issue.

And if I add an X1, does that mean I need to get an external audio IO? Or am I OK to just use the internal one (inside the PC) and add a cheap USB-Audio adapter?

Sorry for the long post. Thanks in advance.

Brendan

[LabRat]

I probably wouldn't bother with an x1. Just grab a USB hub with a few extra inputs and go from there.

Which are you more concerned with, playing out or playing at home?

[Brenchen]

I probably wouldn't bother with an x1. Just grab a USB hub with a few extra inputs and go from there.

Which are you more concerned with, playing out or playing at home?

The reason for the inclination to switch to modular is because of the lack of space at home. I haven't played out before (I'm still very new in this) so not sure how that would be like, but just practicing, setting up, taking down, and all the physical fatigue I get from using an AIO controller is putting me off; I can't just switch on a computer and software and start practicing. If a modular was setup, the controllers can be neatly stacked away behind my monitors and when I want to use it, I just take it out and start using it.

[LabRat]

That's fair enough. If you're already using traktor then the x1 should do ok (I've not used one). Otherwise, the s2 controller is pretty compact. That could be an option?

[Brenchen]

That's fair enough. If you're already using traktor then the x1 should do ok (I've not used one). Otherwise, the s2 controller is pretty compact. That could be an option?

My current controller is still very slightly smaller than the S2, and it's claiming too much space already, that's why I would like to move to an even smaller option. So say I get an X1, does that mean I need to get an audio interface as well? Or just use the ASIO4ALL will suffice?

[LabRat]

I don't think so. The x1 plugs in via USB and as long as you have a line out into a mixer of some sort from your laptop I'd say you should be fine.

[Kodiak]

You are using the F1 purely to control cue points, is that right? If you had an S2 then you wouldn't need it or you could use it for samples as intended.

[LabRat]

There's another controller like the x1 that can trigger cue points I'm pretty sure

[Mitch]

If you want to be able to use headphones as well as the master out, you'll need a soundcard, eg the NI Audio 2.

Also note DJing with the x1s takes a lot of the base skill/technique away as the computer is doing most of the work for you (even more than when using the mixtrack).

[Brenchen]

All interesting points there.

DrC1:

Firstly, at this stage, the F1 is indeed just for cue points. The fact that it allows up to 8 cue points I like it very much. Although when I get my head around remixing with samples, I will be doing that as well. And I don't have an S2, I only have the MTP2, which is slightly smaller than the S2. However, the main problem is still space/convenience for me. I can do a lot of what S2 can do (so I think anyway) on my MTP2 so I'm not that concerned at getting another or replacing my current AIO controllers.

Spitfire:

I'm not quite sure of that one no, can you give me some more information? Is it from NI as well?

Mitch:

Interesting point there. But I'm curious as to what kind of basic skills do MTP2/X1 take away? At the moment I do all my own beatmatching and never use "sync" even I have it matched and just to keep it in time. What other aspects are there?

[Mitch]

If you're only going to be using X1s, you lose pitch faders, platters, and a few other bits and pieces that your current controller has. Essentially you will be using all the auto cue, auto sync etc

Most people using X1s to control decks (one prominent person that comes to mind is Richie Hawtin) use an external mixer (e.g. a DJM or Xone) with an external soundcard to route all the sound through, making it less compact than your current setup anyway.

[Brenchen]

If you're only going to be using X1s, you lose pitch faders, platters, and a few other bits and pieces that your current controller has. Essentially you will be using all the auto cue, auto sync etc

Most people using X1s to control decks (one prominent person that comes to mind is Richie Hawtin) use an external mixer (e.g. a DJM or Xone) with an external soundcard to route all the sound through, making it less compact than your current setup anyway.

Ah ok, so the X1 don't have volume faders or gain controls? The X1 MK2's touch strip brings some of those feature back I'd think no? You can nudge and even scratch with it from what I've seen (not saying I'll scratch with it though).

In terms of external soundcard, why is the ASIO4ALL not sufficient? It does a pretty good job doesn't it? If I can use that one and add a USB <-> Audio adapter, that can give me two audio outputs.

[Mitch]

Using 2 different soundcards aggregated together with ASIO like you specify, each soundcard will have a different latency. So cueing up in your headphones (referencing one ear against master output) you may have it matched up sounding ok, but then when you bring the volume up on the track you've been cueing up, it won't actually be in time.

Also yes, no volume faders on the X1. I guess you could map the faders on the F1 to your channels, but the mappings are going to get messy and confusing pretty quickly

[Brenchen]

Using 2 different soundcards aggregated together with ASIO like you specify, each soundcard will have a different latency. So cueing up in your headphones (referencing one ear against master output) you may have it matched up sounding ok, but then when you bring the volume up on the track you've been cueing up, it won't actually be in time.

Also yes, no volume faders on the X1. I guess you could map the faders on the F1 to your channels, but the mappings are going to get messy and confusing pretty quickly

Interesting! So how does people beatmatch manually or is it commonly not done manually?

[Mitch]

I have the incoming track playing in headphones. Headphones on one ear. Beatmatching to the track playing out loud.

I'm using cdjs and mixer (no laptop/software).

Beatmatching is a common & core skill, especially as there is no sync feature on the equipment I have.

[Brenchen]

I've trained myself not to use the SYNC button even if I have it. Some may say I'm stubborn but now that I'm used to it (or at least getting better), I'm happy to do it this way (keeps me busy ). What I mean was how does people beatmatch manually using an X1 without pitch sliders do you know?

[Scottie]

I would guess buttons can be assigned to pitch shift - I know my mixtrack has them, where pressing it increases the bpm of the track temporarily. It's basically the same thing as when you would adjust the platters on cdj's, just in button form.

[Brenchen]

Realising that X1 doesn't have native volume adjust (faders, EQ etc.) is a huge minus for me, need to think again... Sure I can download existing or remap it myself so it works like a mixer, but it indeed could get messy.

Can anyone recommend something that is like the X1 but including faders and EQ etc. vol adjustment mechanisms?

[yizzle]

maybe the Behringer PL-1 ?

it pretty much the same size and about $80 cheaper than the X1.

*edit: you can read a bit about it and see some other similar controllers in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14250

[LabRat]

I've trained myself not to use the SYNC button even if I have it. Some may say I'm stubborn but now that I'm used to it (or at least getting better), I'm happy to do it this way (keeps me busy ). What I mean was how does people beatmatch manually using an X1 without pitch sliders do you know?

The sync feature isn't such a bad thing. It allows you to be more creative with you're mixes

[Scottie]

Or a faderfox dj3, seem like a dope little compact unit http://faderfox.de/dj3.html

[Brenchen]

maybe the Behringer PL-1 ?

it pretty much the same size and about $80 cheaper than the X1.

*edit: you can read a bit about it and see some other similar controllers in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14250

Yea that's it! Something like this looks good. If there are anymore suggestions please let me know, meanwhile I'll keep looking.

[LabRat]

Or a faderfox dj3, seem like a dope little compact unit http://faderfox.de/dj3.html

One of the hardstyle guys just started using this for his live shows. Looks pretty rad

[yizzle]

maybe give us a budget you're working with mate?

could make the search easier and more importantly, get results for what you are looking for.

[Brenchen]

maybe give us a budget you're working with mate?

could make the search easier and more importantly, get results for what you are looking for.

Indeed! I'm looking at no more than the cost of an X1, so around 280 tops. But willing to stretch it a little if I feel it's necessary.