How good is good enough???

[DionDJ]

Sup All

So when I record my mixes i go back and listen over them very carefully before I upload, and if I find any small imperfection, I just delete it. This can be small as a miss beat for 1 or 2 seconds, and to be honest, it gets me really frustrated and I loose motivation.

Does anyone else experience this? I mean I listen to some mixes and i find imperfections here and there too, & think to myself maybe I'm just being pedantic. I also just use hardware, no software etc.

Be good to get some feedback from y'all.

Cheers

[GREMM1S]

Nothing wrong with trying to strive for the perfect mix dude.

[overit]

imo it depends on your style and the audience you are aiming for.

Assuming you define "perfect" as impeccably beatmatched and always dropping on breaks/changes with respect to the overall musical arrangement of both tracks, with no clashing vocals, melodies or harmonies:

Many modern online listeners are used to mixes being "perfect" simply because djs are exactly as pedantic as you seem to feel you need to be. But many club goers are used to listening to LIVE djs in real life.

In a live situation hardly any DJ is "perfect" and it shows if you record a live set anywhere by anyone (except those who use sync).

This is because a good DJ in a live situation has to react to the crowd and the noise and hubbub in a room plus the vibe and energy level of a party, monitoring is hardly ever perfect, and you're surrounded by people who will cause a distraction. e.g. a tune is on but the crowd are not that into it so rather than mixing with the arrangement a good DJ quickly drops in a better tune. This works for that room and no one would go home thinking the DJ had made any mistakes. But this would not sound good to an online listener sat at home because it probably didnt respect the arrangement and may have even been done with slightly crunchy beats coz the DJ didnt take the time to perfectly match them.

Thing is: the sound of a DJ coping with these situations (and manually maintaining a beatmatch they had to rush) is the sound of a professional live performer. Bands have known this for decades and many club goers know this too. They want their performer tested and on the edge, it helps to create the atmosphere when done well... It causes trainwrecks when done badly... so it also helps sort the djs from the amateurs.

If you want online followers who are used to the polished mix uploaded by perfectionists then you already know how pedantic to be. There is a whole section of club culture built up around this vibe now and it is totally acceptable if you want to go that route.

I want rooms full of people who know I am not a robot and that I want to buzz as much as them, so I never polish mixes before I upload them and I often just record live sets and post them simply as adverts of my capabilities. That way I get a live audience who know I will do whatever it takes to make the party go off, even if that means some wobbly but (hopefully) vibe friendly mixes.

[GREMM1S]

imo it depends on your style and the audience you are aiming for.

Assuming you define "perfect" as impeccably beatmatched and always dropping on breaks/changes with respect to the overall musical arrangement of both tracks, with no clashing vocals, melodies or harmonies:

Many modern online listeners are used to mixes being "perfect" simply because djs are exactly as pedantic as you seem to feel you need to be. But many club goers are used to listening to LIVE djs in real life.

In a live situation hardly any DJ is "perfect" and it shows if you record a live set anywhere by anyone (except those who use sync).

This is because a good DJ in a live situation has to react to the crowd and the noise and hubbub in a room plus the vibe and energy level of a party, monitoring is hardly ever perfect, and you're surrounded by people who will cause a distraction. e.g. a tune is on but the crowd are not that into it so rather than mixing with the arrangement a good DJ quickly drops in a better tune. This works for that room and no one would go home thinking the DJ had made any mistakes. But this would not sound good to an online listener sat at home because it probably didnt respect the arrangement and may have even been done with slightly crunchy beats coz the DJ didnt take the time to perfectly match them.

Thing is: the sound of a DJ coping with these situations (and manually maintaining a beatmatch they had to rush) is the sound of a professional live performer. Bands have known this for decades and many club goers know this too. They want their performer tested and on the edge, it helps to create the atmosphere when done well... It causes trainwrecks when done badly... so it also helps sort the djs from the amateurs.

If you want online followers who are used to the polished mix uploaded by perfectionists then you already know how pedantic to be. There is a whole section of club culture built up around this vibe now and it is totally acceptable if you want to go that route.

I want rooms full of people who know I am not a robot and that I want to buzz as much as them, so I never polish mixes before I upload them and I often just record live sets and post them simply as adverts of my capabilities. That way I get a live audience who know I will do whatever it takes to make the party go off, even if that means some wobbly but (hopefully) vibe friendly mixes.

Great post, i honestly prefer the sound of a live mix, just seems to have more character than a perfectly structured and planned one.

[OxyKon]

Very wise words there, I know a lot of people record sets using programs, with me, it's always live, I mean there is just something about that live sound that just makes it sound so good, every single set of mine that you have listened to, is all recorded live, no alterations, no computer synths, nothing, all I'm using is the 4 decks at my disposal and a 4ch mixer, and that's the way I like it

[OxyKon]

Forgot to mention that it takes a shit load of practice, eventually u get to the point where you can record a set and be very happy with it

[GREMM1S]

I've tried doing them on ableton it's horrible, doing mixes on decks ftw.

[DionDJ]

Thanks for the great advice!!!

I generally mix with no clashing vocals / harmonies etc, but might just miscue / mistime slightly. I find that if I do a party or a club (which I haven't done in about 8 years as I have only just got back into it), a slight mistime is generally covered up by the the acoustics of the room, or another possibility is that it might not be that noticeable considering all the other noise that's going on, & I generally adjust and fix it within seconds.

However when it's a recorded mix, you can hear every little sound clearly, and I think in my mind that those 2 seconds completely ruins the mix.

I guess I also don't do myself any favours by structuring my mix, I don't make playlist's etc, Just jump on the decks and choose tunes on the fly that I like or I think will sound good together.

BTW If you guys have Soundcloud account etc I'd love to check out your tunes!

[OxyKon]

It's all about knowing your tracks as well, most intros to track will have a vocal free area around about 16 to 32 bars, depending on the genre, just know your tracks, and you'll be sweet

[Kodiak]

In my very, very short time doing this I put a lot of effort into planning the mix of the ones I intend to upload. Right down to rehearsing each transition, knowing exactly my cues, how I am fading and what I am doing with EQ's. I guess it is because it is a recording, made essentially for other people's enjoyment I want it to be perfect. I will stop and start again if required. Or if I hear something I don't like when listening back I will start again. One of the discussions I had with the feedback on the newbie comp was regarding this and how it wasn't just fluke or natural talent but quit a bit of effort beforehand. I guess this is why some of my mixes can sound pretty polished for someone so new? But some are completely shithouse.... Hey I only been doing this since March this year.

But live mixing is a whole different animal. This takes so much more skill and experience that I just do not have.

Then only live mix I have on Soundcloud is one I did straight after getting Mixed in Key. And the point of that was not necessarily to see how good I could nail the phrasing and transitions but to see how random, un-auditioned songs in my library sounded in a harmonic mix and whether the theory worked.

[DionDJ]

That's a great point, I mean as I said, I really just jump on the decks and do everything on the fly and expect it to come out OK, and sometimes they do, but when they don't I just get frustrated. Maybe a bit more structure upfront may benefit.

I'd rather mix my tracks in that 16 - 32 bars up front rather than use loops if possible, I think it sounds smoother as you say OxyKon.

I have looked into mixed in key and I think would make all the difference as far as harmonic mixing. I don't use software ATM, however when I do get my sh*t together and get some, Mixed in key will be a must!

[overit]

oh yeah what oxykon said: Practise is key.

Call it structure, a plan, a method or a set piece... When I was with a band we would practise until we were literally bored. Then when we played live or in the studio to record we were nervous and excited by the pressure and the situation but not by making the performance because we knew exactly what we were doing.

When you have enough set pieces up your sleeve and ready to rock at anytime you can freestyle most events knowing that if things go tits up you can still resort to your rehearsed pieces.

anyway money where my mouth is: I just posted a mix i did while preparing an upcoming event. Hopefully you'll feel the energy but I know you'll notice a few wobbles too. That's me, warts and all.

viewtopic.php?f=104&p=170544#p170544

[russell]

That's a great point, I mean as I said, I really just jump on the decks and do everything on the fly and expect it to come out OK, and sometimes they do, but when they don't I just get frustrated. Maybe a bit more structure upfront may benefit.

whenever i'm just having a mix I'll hit the record button. Might get something done worth sticking up, might not. I'm not one for putting in a lot of planning when I try to record a mix. I'll go through tracks to see what I want to use then use a selection of those. If I mess it up and wouldn't keep going through it. I'd just do something different but that's only because trying to mix the same tracks in the same order over and over bores me.

so just practice as much as you can, record everything you do and have fun with it.

[eggssell]

i usually play around for an hour or two on the fly and unplanned

then i look at what i played and then pick out a few things that worked (not necessarily making a planned set, but more making a list of songs that work)

then ill hit record and see what comes out. its usually sub-par, and ill have two or three go's at it, chopping and chaning each time. then i go to bed. wake up, hit record and smash out an okay mix.

i have to do the hour or two messing about because i usually go one to two months of actually no play at a time. and also because i chew through music on a weekly basis, and try not to listen to the same song within 10 days of each other. so i dont know my songs in terms of length of intro, breakdowns etc.

speaking of which though, i once tried to plan when ill mix in tracks and got super frustrated with it. because maybe i couldnt beatmatch quick enough etc. so i never do that now. just while beat matching ill listen to the incoming track get a feel for how where im coming in sounds. and then just wait for the best time to drop it.

but yeah agree with everyones tips above.

[DionDJ]

i usually play around for an hour or two on the fly and unplanned

then i look at what i played and then pick out a few things that worked (not necessarily making a planned set, but more making a list of songs that work)

then ill hit record and see what comes out. its usually sub-par, and ill have two or three go's at it, chopping and chaning each time. then i go to bed. wake up, hit record and smash out an okay mix.

Funny you say that, because I normally come home from work which can be a 12 hour day at times, and try to drop an up-loadable mix, but find I'm just too tired and cock it up somehow, however I'll do a very similar mix (track wise) on the weekend and it will be fine.

I guess it's good to know I'm not the only one that has these frustrations.

[SourceRaver]

When I hear a perfect mix I always wonder what equipment was used (ie software vs software). If hear a couple of mistakes I know straight way someone is doing it on decks and I have a lot more respect for the Dj. Keep the mistakes in mix and 'keep it real'.

[overit]

hey source! good comment as ever mate...

I don't wanna go offtopic but... I am foolish/imadje/dim back from a little walkabout.

I put a post in the intro section buddy, now I am "overit"

[russell]

When I hear a perfect mix I always wonder what equipment was used (ie software vs software). If hear a couple of mistakes I know straight way someone is doing it on decks and I have a lot more respect for the Dj. Keep the mistakes in mix and 'keep it real'.

I leave small mistakes in my mixes but only if there's one, two tops.

[DionDJ]

Thanks everyone, it's been a serious help!

[DionDJ]

So put down a mix that I wanted you guys to check out, can't upload on SC due to copyright infringements.... anyone else experienced this?

[yizzle]

yeah. put about 15 sec of silence b4 the mix & SC usually wont pick it up. or use mixcloud

[andyman]

Change the license on it to creative commons

[GREMM1S]

Im not overly sure but the type selection (demo/remix) etc i think plays a part as well.

Like andy said you can do silence or make an intro, also try and stay away from the real popular radio stuff because it picks that up straight away.

[overit]

there are ways round it.

but basically:

soundcloud is for sounds you made

mixcloud is for mixes you made

[DionDJ]

Mix cloud it is. Not too sure if i would of uploaded this one, but for the purpose of this topic... here it is. Let me know what you think.

http://www.mixcloud.com/dionpearson77/beached/