djschooluk

Cheers all, this is spreading quite far now... But when this is all done I'll try and remember to share some of the comments left by users with you lot. Standard amount of shortsighted ignorance, overthinking self-debate and incredible GOLD! I <3 the unternet

survey is live - https://www.ausdjforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=16871&p=246378#p246378 Seen.

Do you think DJs are as skilled as trained musicians? Do you want DJs to get qualified to the same standard as trained musicians? Not everyone needs or wants a piece a paper to prove they have skills, but to employers a qualification sure can be handy. We think there should be qualified DJ exams, at all ages and abilities, that are equal to the qualifications that “real” musicians can do. If you have something to say about this fill in our survey. It won’t take long. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1PqW5a-RaBhl5t2WdC-hBLluKd8jDZ1m1wiaAS0BitIA/viewform?c=0&w=1 For more info or to see why we think this is important click here: http://djschooluk.org.uk/djexams/

yeah fair - I've only given once and that was a past life on these boards. Being skint personally and running a non-profit means it's hard to give anything but let me see what the School can spare after we've done our financial year accounts in next month or so - might even be tax-deductable.

Cheers Eggs - 7 or 8 regulars but which one is actually Keyser soze? We're a long way off publishing anything Oxy - we have drafts and are pretty much ready to go but just had meetings with publishers - They want to see the market research before they commit. So we gotta keep taking the right steps and not giving it away... If we get their backing it would be so much bigger and more professionally done than if we go it alone. That way we might actually achieve something. Business ish innit. But you make a fair point so if you see a survey from me you can definitely tick the "maybe" box.

ez now - so dunno if anyone is still following this but we are making good steps towards getting something done about this. Our next step is market research - to see who really would put their money where their mouth is and get "qualified" as a DJ in the same way a guitarist or violin player can do. WE ARE NOT SAYING EVERYONE NEEDS TO. We just wonder how many people do see value in getting a bit of paper that proves you have equal skill to traditional instrumentalists. We think these qualifications could open the door for more of us to work as session recording artists, in theatres, orchestras etc (yeah i know weird idea but embrace the future and see the turntable everywhere- ) So you think I should post the market research survey in ADJF or not?

Aye, as with most of these things it was really an advertising campaign for the host org (Aviva) anyway. Woulda been nice to get some of the loot but.

nah - there were a few army cadet organisations in the competition who had thousands of squaddies and their families who all voted for them. We were pretty high in the running for smaller orgs but couldn't even come close to the size of the winners. Thanks for all your help tho - ADJF 4 lyf.

Mang - Wish I had the time - too busy prepping the next gen innit. You know how it is tho - one morning, when you are all chilling, and it's 5 am after a gig here - CHAT TYPOS!

Ah you guys, u make me feel all warm and fuzzy

Hey Hey, https://community-fund.aviva.co.uk/voting/project/301 My non-profit company entered an online crowd-funding voting thing. It costs nothing, takes two minutes, and even though we are UK it is open globally. If we win we get some free cash to keep helping kids learn DJing. Be a darling and get on and vote for us. Love you long time. https://community-fund.aviva.co.uk/voting/project/301

MATE! This is exactly the info I was looking for. And yep - I see you recognise what we are up against to try and sort this out. Being fair and allowing for all the various techniques which can be applied to a DJ set is going to be a real headache. But we feel it's time to take it on. If you would be interested (as a musician and DJ) in joining in the consultation phase just hit me up with a PM. Cheers.

with age comes wisdom old friend

sorry yes - you're right, mixing skills are timeless. I only mean that book is out of date as it mentions CDJs very briefly and was written before any controllers were invented. ...and no one here is intending to write an actual book. I used the term "write the book" in the OP as a metaphor in the same way I could say - if amateur DJs come at me suffering from a Kruger-Manning (1999) mindset I will "throw the book at them." My bad. i'll try and keep things simpler in future.

oh lol - just checked the link - that book is great but out of date - one of our goto texts for useful diagrams but

Yes Eggs, It's not "a book" as such - it's a curriculum - i.e. the steps needed to formally "learn" an instrument and the means for teachers to assess the same. Just as "learning" guitar or violin academically involves hands on practise and assessed performances so would a DJ curriculum. No different to needing a practical side to learning how to cook. No teacher claims to be able to teach creativity - we just teach the steps to unlock it. and yeah you are right - I'm not suggesting all DJs would need qualifications here - bar and club DJs will still be booked on reputation and ability just as guitarists and bands are. Just like you said "i guess its kind of like half the musicians playing in the live scene are not musically trained." BUT up until now its ALL DJs who are not trained. What we hope is to redress the balance - to bring DJing as a musical art form in line with other instruments so that DJs can be booked (by those who want to do so) as recording session artists, theatres, orchestras, etc etc - just opening up many more doors in the vast world of the music industry which rep alone cannot open. wrote the above before your added comment but aye. We have got the idea as existing schools in mainstream education are having fewer kids taking up music - rendering whole departments under-subscribed - but at the same time there are heaps of kids who would study music more if it involved DJing and respected the art form as much as traditional instruments. Cool comments and i'll check out that link mate.

Thanks for the reply alex. out of interest - do you do any turntablism? and what genres do you mainly play?

ok - so i'm coming back to you lot to test the water here. Short version: Would you contribute/donate to a team of people who were trying once and for all to write the book on how to DJ and how to examine/assess a DJs ability? To put it another way - do you really believe DJing is the equivalent of classical violin or rock guitar, should be taught in schools as such, and are willing to put your money where your mouth is to prove it? ----------------------------------- Long version: In the UK the standard exams school kids do are called GCSE - the music GCSE involves a performance - recently we (DJSchoolUK) have been asked to help write the assessment criteria so they can include DJing as a performance art. Good right? But they aren't giving it enough care, time or attention IMHO. Not even equivalent to music technology which they added a year or two ago. So I am thinking - if a group of experienced folk like us were to independently set up a crowd funding appeal - asking DJs the world over to contribute a few pennies/cents or whatever each - so we could take the time to really write up a complete curriculum and assessment criteria - for worldwide DJs at any point on the skill spectrum - so that students really could prove their worth and get qualified... who would pay? who would want to study? who would think it a waste of time? and also - do such curriculums exist already? if so at what level/ages/countries do they apply? We (DJSchoolUK) already have an informal curriculum but no dedicated examining body and so no qualification. The existing qualifications available in the UK are out of date or only cover mixing/beat-matching not turntablism or controllerism. FYI - on our board of directors are a head of music working in a UK school at the relevant level, and Pro DJs with worldwide success. We also have confirmed input from world champion turntablists and a professor of music psychology. I'm not naming them outright as we are just testing the water here, but we think we have the credentials. Thoughts?

hmmm, ok I think I see what's going on here. I'm aware that all music making DJs are on a spectrum. I'm aware other artforms have sub-disciplines which they use to help others understand what type of art they produce (painter vs graphic designer, Graf writer vs sculptor) and yet they are all happy to also be called artists. I'm also aware that divisions are crazy and that half the problem with the DJ scene is people hating on each other for their differences. I also accept that there are a lot of divisions and that this is the current state of play. That is why I thought these different terms may help people see their differences, stop arguing about what is best, and most of all recognise the insanity of giving such a lot of hate when, as YSM says, we are all "playing music to a crowd that enjoys it, no matter how it is done?" But I guess recognising and trying to name divisions doesn't help heal the divisions already present. Cheers for the feedback lads, I knew you'd give it some time.

I see your point about crate digging, but I disagree with the guitarist thing. Guitarists now generally show a piccy of themselves with their axe and from this fans can guess what style of music to expect at a gig but when the electric guitar was new on the scene they always defined gigs using that instrument as "rock n roll"guitarists - especially so that classical purists didn't turn up and spoil a vibe by dissing the new style they just didn't understand. Absolultey not old pal - The purpose of my proposed redefinition is to avoid/bypass this secretive handshake club. By giving different styles different names I hope to stop everyone slagging each other off. Vive la difference!

hmmm, interesting... Cupe - the guys you are talking about are definitely just entertainers, as close to DJs or EJs as Posh Spice is to Singers, and wouldn't come under either of my proposed definitions. I wasn't talking about pre-recorded sets, I was talking about pre-prepared hot cues, loop points etc. Real EJs still mash it up live and this takes real skills and creativity. Eggs and Kodiak - It's entirely to level the playing field that I'm proposing this redefinition. The only people using "Discs" right now are vinyl only jockeys. Their skill set is as different to "EJs" as the skill set of a classical guitarist to an electric guitarist (effects pedals, loops, tremelo bars etc). I think it should be differentiated but recognised as equal. When I said "whose manual dexterity dictates what live remixing ability they have" I'm not implying they all have to remix. I am simply saying that if you do hear a creative mix or live remix from a vinyl DJ then you know it is because of his/her manual dexterity, With an EDJ a live remix can be prepared and re-called at the touch of a button. I am also recognising the art of the vinyl "selector" being someone whose skill is in the collection and care of vinyl and who doesn't mix at all. A talent that is really on the back foot since digital files became so ubiquitous. I'm not trying to be elitist or saying one is better than the other. Simply offering a way for vinyl elitists to accept their EJ brothers as equals without fretting over the differing skill set they have. While Offering the EJs a term relevant to them because they use no discs. In addition the different definition will give an audience a better idea of what to expect. Under this definition if you go to watch a DJ you expect warm analogue vinyl records, possibly mixed, possibly remixed, but only using turntablism. If you go to watch an EDJ you expect to hear cues, loops, effects and multiple sources because those options are available to them at the press of a button. Neither is necessarily better than the other, both require musical skill and creativity, but the methods of production are different. To avoid elitism I believe people should know what to expect. Imagine going to a "guitar" gig expecting flamenco because it is the only style of guitar you know, then hearing jimi hendrix - without the additional explanation of what hendrix does his crowd would most likely be fuming and asking for refunds, this is why things have definitions - so we can choose what we want to take part in. It's just a thought, and i'm probably not the best at explaining it.

It's been a while since I've been on here, but after a fair bit of chatter a few of us at DJ School UK thought this up. It may have been tried before, the intention is to increase the peace/decrease the boredom. Your thoughts would be valued highly Ladies and Gents of ADJF: ------------------------------------------------------------- So the argument/discussion continues – are Digital DJs really DJing? There is no doubt that the ability to have preset hotcues, loops and multiple sound sources all synchronised automatically is very different from the vinyl approach of old skool turntablists, dub selectors, N soul collectors, or vinyl-only dance DJs (be they House, Drum n Bass or whatever.) But vinyl, digital, CDJ and DVS DJs are all using pre-recorded sounds to generate new music, hopefully in tune with a listening audience. So why is everyone arguing about who is “keeping it real” or what “DJing” really is? I think the problem, as is often the case amongst argumentative people, is in the definition. Vinyl purists use Vinyl Discs and jockey them around to create their sets. They started this game, they do not have any digital ability at all. They are clearly Disc Jockeys or DJs. (FYI – I do not include DVS DJs using timecode vinyl with vinyl purists. Digital Vinyl Systems allow digital loops, sync, hot cues etc and so even though the control surface is vinyl the sound output is not analogue.) Digital DJs, whether they use DVS, Controller, CDJ or any other digital format can, depending on their equipment, use any number of functions completely unavailable to Vinyl DJs. In some cases these functions could be said to make DJing easier, in many cases these functions push the artform forward and develop completely new styles of making music and entertaining people. One thing is for sure, they do not all use “discs” of any kind. (even CDJ DJs can now use USB flashdrives). So – for the sake of smoothing over the arguments and debates, I propose a new term: EJ. This is for all the “Electronic DJs” who use digital formats but not necessarily discs at all. It seems to fit the bill to me, and I hope it helps people get over some of their differences. With the term “EJ” we know we are going to listen to someone who plays digital files, who can feasibly play any song ever made via the magic of the internet, who can pre-prepare and/or remix multiple sources live, and who entertains an audience by using pre-recorded sounds in a new and creative way. With the term “DJ” we know we are going to listen to someone whose music is only played from analogue vinyl recordings they have taken the time to source, collect and care for, whose manual dexterity dictates what live remixing ability they have, and who entertains an audience by using pre-recorded sounds in a new and creative way. You will clearly notice the similarity between the two definitions - both are entertaining using pre-recorded sounds, it's everything else that is different. I have no idea if this re-definition will catch on. Personally I use all formats and enjoy the various different features and pros and cons of vinyl, CDJ, DVS and controller to the same extent that I have driven various vehicles and enjoy the various features and pros and cons that exist between a tractor, a family estate and a fairground bumper car. They are all OK, they just have different applications that suit them. So why not have different terms to explain them? Peace.

yep - cheers Mitch, that has fixed it. FYI - I also recently discovered that mavericks is not supported for Numark NS6 users who want to update from ITCH to the new free SERATO DJ.